6 + 2 Point Deductions

[Jacko93]

We got one point deduction for every £5m we went over mate, so that was 4 pts. If we get those 4 pts back then surely the prem couldn't then turn round to Forest and say "we're going to charge you one point for every £5m you have gone over" Forest would be like "hang on, you have just given Everton their 4 pts back for every £5m they went over"

Well, yes they could, because they may just be reducing it accepting mitigation to the value of £18m meaning that we are over, but only by a value less than £5m.

Truth is, nobody knows and, whatever argument we make for hos it should be, there will be a counter argument as to why thats wrong, until such a time as its announced. Even then I doubt they'll explain their thinking.

 

[DuncansPigeons]

Whichever way you look at it the only sensible approach is us getting all ten points back. And the second charge removed.

This is no deliberate breach like Forrest where we’ve said screw the rules.

We have a position by where we’ve said no breach our numbers are X and here’s our exclusions. The PL have said no your numbers are Y. We’ve said “OK if they are Y here’s the reasons why”. They’ve gone hahaha you agreed with us at Y here’s ten points off.

If they fail to acknowledge mitigations through this appeal they’ll end up in court. These aren’t numbers in the air, we can literally point to holes in our accounts caused by external uncontrollable mitigating factors.

The “IC” were in no way independent in my opinion. The KC had already hit Everton with a record sanction for a pitch invasion. The financial “expert” was involved in one of the biggest swindles in PL history. Masters directing them to a points deduction BEFORE a hearing is effectively him influencing due process….lets not forget the PL pays these guys bills.

Can you imagine someone saying that a sponsor being pulled because of a war was something Everton could/should have prepared for? In any other business practice you would never be asked to account or forecast for that

Everton were the chosen sacrificial lambs to show that the PL didn’t need regulation. And it’s backfired spectacularly in the court of popular opinion, the government and if the PL aren’t careful…actual court

 

[Hellerad]

First episode of Talking utter Pony is coming Sunday mate.

Special guest @chicoazul

 

[Ring master]

Whichever way you look at it the only sensible approach is us getting all ten points back. And the second charge removed.

This is no deliberate breach like Forrest where we’ve said screw the rules.

We have a position by where we’ve said no breach our numbers are X and here’s our exclusions. The PL have said no your numbers are Y. We’ve said “OK if they are Y here’s the reasons why”. They’ve gone hahaha you agreed with us at Y here’s ten points off.

If they fail to acknowledge mitigations through this appeal they’ll end up in court. These aren’t numbers in the air, we can literally point to holes in our accounts caused by external uncontrollable mitigating factors.

The “IC” were in no way independent in my opinion. The KC had already hit Everton with a record sanction for a pitch invasion. The financial “expert” was involved in one of the biggest swindles in PL history. Masters directing them to a points deduction BEFORE a hearing is effectively him influencing due process….lets not forget the PL pays these guys bills.

Can you imagine someone saying that a sponsor being pulled because of a war was something Everton could/should have prepared for? In any other business practice you would never be asked to account or forecast for that

Everton were the chosen sacrificial lambs to show that the PL didn’t need regulation. And it’s backfired spectacularly in the court of popular opinion, the government and if the PL aren’t careful…actual court

If the miracle of the 10points been returned to us - which i doubt a lot. I fully auto expect the 2nd charge to disappear, as the 2nd charge includes off course parts from the 1st

 

[Martin Alvito]

This was my initial feeling and I still dislike the idea that "small" clubs should have to sell their best players below market value to hit a certain number on a certain date, one which doesn't actually mean anything business wise other than in the PL handbook.

It's just another way the whole affair pulls up the ladder behind the current top clubs. If a club pays market rates to compete, at the end of that brief window of competitive viability the club has to fire sale its best assets upward at a discount. It's bad enough for pricing that many players want to move upward for higher wages, European football and national team visibility.

It makes sense if the league's only objective is to raise as much money as possible for those clubs from UEFA competitions, which admittedly seems to be the extent of the league's plan to stop a breakaway European Super League from forming.

It will be interesting to see how the league handles Boehly's Forest-writ-large mismanagement of Chelsea's finances. I don't see how they sell players at high enough prices to stay in front of an amortization breach, now that player values have tanked in the wake of everyone running scared of the Prem's wrath.

 

[RD2910]

Whichever way you look at it the only sensible approach is us getting all ten points back. And the second charge removed.

This is no deliberate breach like Forrest where we’ve said screw the rules.

We have a position by where we’ve said no breach our numbers are X and here’s our exclusions. The PL have said no your numbers are Y. We’ve said “OK if they are Y here’s the reasons why”. They’ve gone hahaha you agreed with us at Y here’s ten points off.

If they fail to acknowledge mitigations through this appeal they’ll end up in court. These aren’t numbers in the air, we can literally point to holes in our accounts caused by external uncontrollable mitigating factors.

The “IC” were in no way independent in my opinion. The KC had already hit Everton with a record sanction for a pitch invasion. The financial “expert” was involved in one of the biggest swindles in PL history. Masters directing them to a points deduction BEFORE a hearing is effectively him influencing due process….lets not forget the PL pays these guys bills.

Can you imagine someone saying that a sponsor being pulled because of a war was something Everton could/should have prepared for? In any other business practice you would never be asked to account or forecast for that

Everton were the chosen sacrificial lambs to show that the PL didn’t need regulation. And it’s backfired spectacularly in the court of popular opinion, the government and if the PL aren’t careful…actual court

Is it definite that Forest's breach is deliberate? I know they spent huge amounts on an enormous number of players, but none of us really know how much of that is going towards the PSR calculation. How do we know they didn't make all these plans with the best will in the world to comply with the rules only to screw it up a bit? Feels a bit like we should probably wait for a report before wading in.

 

[Rita_Poon]

Let's say a side wanted to 'game' the system. Setup with a load of amateurs in the PL, lose every game, wait till January and sign 30 players at £40million each. Caught overspending. Points deduction, relegated all the same, only the sanction has happened, primo squad for the championship, bounce straight up into the PL, hey presto, league challengers. Rivals complain about a vastly enriched squad, but the punishment has already been met.

 

[b-rad]

Let's say a side wanted to 'game' the system. Setup with a load of amateurs in the PL, lose every game, wait till January and sign 30 players at £40million each. Caught overspending. Points deduction, relegated all the same, only the sanction has happened, primo squad for the championship, bounce straight up into the PL, hey presto, league challengers. Rivals complain about a vastly enriched squad, but the punishment has already been met.

Because it's a rolling 3-yr calc, they'd need to make massive profits in the next year not to fall foul again.

 

[Jcr1878]

Let's say a side wanted to 'game' the system. Setup with a load of amateurs in the PL, lose every game, wait till January and sign 30 players at £40million each. Caught overspending. Points deduction, relegated all the same, only the sanction has happened, primo squad for the championship, bounce straight up into the PL, hey presto, league challengers. Rivals complain about a vastly enriched squad, but the punishment has already been met.

Everton messed up with this strategy, they bought the amateurs for 20-40 million each instead.

 

[Swartzy]

I don't want Forest getting points deducted, I don't want anyone getting points deducted. The rules need to be finalised, they can't just make it up as they go along, which is what they are doing.

No points deductions for anyone, it's BS.

I expect they put it to VAR and then just crumbled with the breach of rules..

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

To me , the only logical reason we haven't heard a verdict yet is that they don't know what to do

Probably this

They’re probably terrified to do anything right now due the can of worms it’s going to open one way or another

 

[Evertonthat]

If it is 6 points and second charge scrapped (nobody knows), but let's say we get 4 back. By that it would work out as 3 for a breach and 1 for every 5 mill over, so 6 points. This wouldn't bode well for Forest if their overspend is significantly more.

 

[Tony’s Carp]

To me , the only logical reason we haven't heard a verdict yet is that they don't know what to do

It's almost like having no rules whatsoever about what the procedure or punishment should be has lead to some confusion and uncertainty.

 

[Jacko93]

Let's say a side wanted to 'game' the system. Setup with a load of amateurs in the PL, lose every game, wait till January and sign 30 players at £40million each. Caught overspending. Points deduction, relegated all the same, only the sanction has happened, primo squad for the championship, bounce straight up into the PL, hey presto, league challengers. Rivals complain about a vastly enriched squad, but the punishment has already been met.

They'd have to get promoted through all the leagues with those amateurs first.

 

[Rita_Poon]

Because it's a rolling 3-yr calc, they'd need to make massive profits in the next year not to fall foul again.

So, sign the players, loan them to a league in saudi for the season the club is in the championship for mega money, arrive back paid for and sweet for the new beginning in the PL.

Agent johnson fell afoul over the Simonsen deal where he paid himself out of Everton's coffers to Tranmere's for a then record fee for a GK. So rules came in over dual ownership of clubs in the same country. So that system has been 'gamed' by overseas owners buying or inventing clubs outside of the jurisdiction tied to respective national leagues.

Where there is a scheme, there is always a schemer.