6 + 2 Point Deductions

[Jacko93]

Agree with this mate

From a Forest point of view...

In the absence of any formulae, and a reluctance to apply a sensible notion of sporting advantage, or give much credence to any aggregating or mitigating factors, the only things left to the commission looking at the Forest position will be to look at the original Everton decision and appeal outcome and use that as basis for our punishment.

On that basis, general feeling from our fan base is a hope (and TBH, an expectation) that you get some points back - I honestly can't see a position where you get the full 10 back cos it just seems like too much of a climb down - but equally 10 points just feels plain wrong.

Suspect our initial punishment will be in same ballpark as your post appeal amount. If we get around 6 then it'll be a straight fight against Luton which we'd expect to win (we are loads better than when we played you last time out). Anymore than that and it'd probably be too much

General mood is being f**ked off by our ownership for getting us into this position, despite multiple statements saying it was being managed. As opposed to anger at the EPL although that could change if the punishment is high. A lot will depend on the written commission report - to see just how badly we managed it.

Don't know about you, but for us, it was a rough season before the announcement we were being referred. Mood now is very low, not because of some on field stuff going against us, but mainly because of the uncertainty of the whole shambolic EPL PSR rules and associated process.

My thoughts in this are that Evertons position is very different to that of Notts Forest.

The IC found us guilty, but not by design. We had breached the threshold but they stated themselves that we never set out with the Intention of doing so. Alongside this, the sporting advantage is only inferred by using another case that says it must be.

In the case of Notts Forest, all your money went on players, you spent the money you did solely to improve your playing squad. This isn't an inferred advantage, it is a much more easily measured one. The same as in the case of your management team making the decision not to sell Brennan Johnson within the PSR reporting period. He played 3 games for you this season, and was likely to have had an affect on those games. Any mitigation in that you were trying to maximise profit woudl be thrown out as it was an actual decision to not sell him and therefore to intentionally breach.

For clarity, I don't want Forest to be deducted points, I think its all ridiculous and in fact, clu s should be given leniency for their first 24 months at the very least, but based on what we know (which is the case of Forest isn't all that much yet) that's where I see the differences.

All in all, I hope the points we gain we keep, and the only points we lose are through poor performance on the pitch. Football used to be a meritocracy, it should continue to be so.

 

[MikeH72]

Exactly! There hasn't been a delay because we are definitely still in mid february.

Be careful, the leap year nonces will be after you.

 

[Tony’s Carp]

It was widely reported mid February would be when we hear.

The 15th of February definitely falls in mid February.

But all that’s been said is expectations or assumptions, but there is no timeline or deadline for their deliberations and nor should there be.

I agree with you that the process has been too slow and there have been unnecessarily long amounts of time leading up to the hearings. But that doesn’t mean they should rush a verdict to compensate. This is the point we WANT them to take their time, as frustrating as that is.

 

[Clarky cat]

It was widely reported mid February would be when we hear.

The 15th of February definitely falls in mid February.

@Goat

Please explain

 

[Fralahna]

Luton would still be livid. Imagine being told you're 1 pt clear of relegation, then because the PL effed up big time, through no fault of their own they fall into the relegation zone. You'd be annoyed. Not necessarily with Everton, but the inconsistency of the PL.

I aren't going to reply specifically to all the comments back on this because youre all pretty much saying the same thing, but I dont think youre putting yourself in anyone else's shoes. As one commenter said, the goalposts have been moved (potentially going to be moved again). Luton didn't move them, the pl did. They have been told that we broke the rules and a "fair" punishment has been dished to us, therefore they are out of the r zone. If they are now told "oh sorry, we effed the points and that position you thought you were in, you're not there now" of course they will feel hard done by. They didn't ask for this s show. Nor did any team around us (apart from maybe Burney with their attempts to sue). We are obviously the ones getting royally messed about but the other teams around us also don't know whats going on, so don't know what's safe and what isn't. And if it goes down to the end of the season for this latest breach, no one will know who's actually safe or not.

And for the record I aren't saying we shouldn't get any points back. I full expect and hope us to get something back for the unfair punishment on us, but you have to think other teams will be unhappy with the PLs s show as well.

This whole mess is unfair on us, but also teams around us. Obviously more so on us though as we're the ones being punished

 

[TGW89]

But all that’s been said is expectations or assumptions, but there is no timeline or deadline for their deliberations and nor should there be.

I agree with you that the process has been too slow and there have been unnecessarily long amounts of time leading up to the hearings. But that doesn’t mean they should rush a verdict to compensate. This is the point we WANT them to take their time, as frustrating as that is.

Also, if there's 41 pages for a puny/non-existent defence and a biased panel, what's a top KC vs an appeals panel going to produce?

 

[Tel001]

Luton would still be livid. Imagine being told you're 1 pt clear of relegation, then because the PL effed up big time, through no fault of their own they fall into the relegation zone. You'd be annoyed. Not necessarily with Everton, but the inconsistency of the PL.

Imagine being 9 points clear and having 10 taken off you?

 

[Tony’s Carp]

It’s been about 8 working days. The last one was 41 pages of legalese. That takes time to prepare, check and check again. The middle of February was a guesstimate.

And if sky knew anything, they’d break it.

Exactly. Maybe if it was one single judge deciding they could whip it up in this amount of time.

But when it’s a panel they need to meet, discuss and reach consensus on the individual points AND the overall verdict, then the chairman (presumably) needs to formulate the written verdict, then the others will get time to read and review it, then they’ll discuss amendments and sign it off all before it’s released to the parties.

People are surprised it’s not done yet but I’d be surprised if it was.

 

[Tony’s Carp]

Luton would still be livid. Imagine being told you're 1 pt clear of relegation, then because the PL effed up big time, through no fault of their own they fall into the relegation zone. You'd be annoyed. Not necessarily with Everton, but the inconsistency of the PL.

They’ve accumulated the third lowest amount of points from football matches, so it would somewhat be their own fault if they are in the relegation zone.

 

[JLW]

But what are you basing the assumption they know on?

The amount of time that’s elapsed is still a very normal amount of time for a verdict on something like this to be produced. It would probably be on the quick side if it were done this week.

Yes, but for sure they wont come to a decision this morning and announce this afternoon, they know how high profile this is and regardless of the decision they will be bombarded with questions from the media and they will want to have every potential question covered with an articulate and justifiable answer.

Also like many of said the timing of the release of the decision will be a huge factor.
Everton live on sky Monday in front of the worlds cameras, if they uphold the decision they wont want there to be huge protects for the world to see.

 

[Fralahna]

Imagine being 9 points clear and having 10 taken off you?

See my last post mate. I dont disagree we have been unfairly punished and effed about. I'm just saying other teams around us dont know whats going on either and can unsurprisingly have a bit of disdain towards the PL for their handling of the matters.

The more teams who agree this has been poorly handled the better. Get someone new in running the league.

 

[Sporting Billy]

My thoughts in this are that Evertons position is very different to that of Notts Forest.

The IC found us guilty, but not by design. We had breached the threshold but they stated themselves that we never set out with the Intention of doing so. Alongside this, the sporting advantage is only inferred by using another case that says it must be.

In the case of Notts Forest, all your money went on players, you spent the money you did solely to improve your playing squad. This isn't an inferred advantage, it is a much more easily measured one. The same as in the case of your management team making the decision not to sell Brennan Johnson within the PSR reporting period. He played 3 games for you this season, and was likely to have had an affect on those games. Any mitigation in that you were trying to maximise profit woudl be thrown out as it was an actual decision to not sell him and therefore to intentionally breach.

For clarity, I don't want Forest to be deducted points, I think its all ridiculous and in fact, clu s should be given leniency for their first 24 months at the very least, but based on what we know (which is the case of Forest isn't all that much yet) that's where I see the differences.

All in all, I hope the points we gain we keep, and the only points we lose are through poor performance on the pitch. Football used to be a meritocracy, it should continue to be so.

Word of warning!!!!NEVER EVER call them Notts Forest. Apparently it’s sacrilege. Nottingham Forest is the correct term

 

[Fralahna]

Who's this fella? Is he involved with the case?

 

[GrandOldTeam]

Who's this fella? Is he involved with the case?

Has close connections to the club and was a very good friend of Bill Kenwright.

Doesn't mean anything though he's just thinking out loud there, IMO. As we all are.

 

[dublinbluenose]

Luton would still be livid. Imagine being told you're 1 pt clear of relegation, then because the PL effed up big time, through no fault of their own they fall into the relegation zone. You'd be annoyed. Not necessarily with Everton, but the inconsistency of the PL.

Its also absurd a team should benefit from a punishment to a team(s) for something that took place when they we're not even in the league.