6 + 2 Point Deductions

[GP_Monty]

Is this true? Or are you just saying things without having any basis?

Can you please identify the 'given 5 year period' and provide the numbers for the 'given 5 year period'.

2016 to 2021 spent £508m on players. There's a given 5 year period for you. So in response to the comment "if we'd spent half that etc...." well we did and we made an absolute cock of it.

 

[Neiler]

Again, of no consequence to Premier League spending and FFP. The article talks of the likes of Helder Costa who joined them in 2016 and Roderick Miranda in 2017. It talks of 12 players joining after the takeover in 2016. Only 4 were Portuguese. So yes, they exploited the relationship between Nuno and Mendes but who wouldn't?

The spending Wolves did in 2022/23 was the concern when they bought Nunes for 45M, Guedes for 27M, Collins for 22M, Kalajdzic for 18M, Hwang for 16M and Lemina for 5M. They ended up getting rid of all but Hwang and Lemina although Guedes and Kalajdzic went on loan.

The point is though, that they saw an issue coming and took action. They were among the favourites to go down when Lopetegui left.

You will see my original point being (the one you replied to), a rebuttal to John Cross - saying that Wolves are whiter than white - by pointing out they gamed the system to win promotion to the PL.

 

[gwladysnight]

It sickens me that some of our fans fell for the “eez alright Carra la, eez deffo a bloo deep down” hogwash. Absolutely sickens me. The fella absolutely hates us and wants to take us down, disgusting snake who spits at kids which everyone seems to have forgotten about.

Farhad Moshiri is to blame for our financial state. But this is about a completely unfair, inconsistent and disproportionate treatment we’ve received from the league. Why people are trying to set up a black and white “the board or the Premier League PICK A SIDE” narrative I’ll never know.

Not a fan of Carragher but I think his article was at least thought-provoking.

Instead of just looking to insult people could you let us know which bits you disagree with?

 

[MikeH72]

Not a fan of Carragher but I think his article was at least thought-provoking.

Instead of just looking to insult people could you let us know which bits you disagree with?

Did you learn our former board members names from that article Bailes?

 

[Neiler]

Carragher takes a wage from Sky Sports, Sky Sports is the Premier Leagues biggest customer, both have mutual interest in protecting the other, its a cartel, work it out!

 

[PITA]

2016 to 2021 spent £508m on players. There's a given 5 year period for you. So in response to the comment "if we'd spent half that etc...." well we did and we made an absolute cock of it.

What is your source?

 

[gwladysnight]

Did you learn our former board members names from that article Bailes?

What is the point Spartacus. You don't mind me calling you Spartacus. If we are going to use pseudonyms, we might as well make them interesting eh?

BDO the auditors, DBB and Ingles all left all or were pushed for not going along with Moshiri's fantasy PSR deductions. All three wouldn't put their name to Mosiri's Jackanory figures.

I might not have been a fan of Kenwright, DBB and Ingles but at least they held Moshiri to account and added a level of scrutiny. What we have now is people hand picked by Moshiri.

 

[WestStandLower]

Fair enough, although bear in mind that the charges were brought in March last year rather than Jan this year on the new timetable. Realistically there would not have been time for any proper due process, especially in the first case of it’s kind, as evidenced by the fact even the new expedited process may end after the end of the season having started two months earlier.

They were indeed issued in March but only days after Everton made their P&S Submission to the PL

Whilst we know that the IC supported the PLs take on matters such as interest I would find it impossible to believe that the highly paid money men at Everton hadn’t explored the requirements re the Interest after all its not the most complex of matters to get your head around . The issue around capitalisation of pre planning costs was identified in house and the PL did engage with Everton.

It’s easy to point a finger at the PL but Everton isn’t a tin pot business where the books are completed by a chap working on his own with a fag hanging out of his mouth located in a corner of porta cabin . The club engage accountants , have access to top quality legal and financial support from massive accountancy firms who charge an arm and a leg surely someone would have identified the issue.

 

[Stefc]

But what happens if the owners then walk away and the club is committed to increased regular outgoings that can't be met by money the business generates organically?

The business model needs be sustainable to prevent the risks of clubs going to the wall if a benefactor has enough of his plaything and no longer wants to throw his own money into a club.

True. But if clubs were required to have a statutory reserve this would help and would make the club more attractive to any future buyer. The fit and proper person test should be tightened up as well. No owner wants their club to go to the wall cos they would lose out (even more so if they had to put their own money in). It’s very difficult to budget long-term when a lot of the income depends on results and successful player trading. This will be good some years and poor others. Nature of sport.

 

[Lloydaldo11]

Everton’s crisis is on Farhad Moshiri: One of English football’s worst-ever owners

Everton’s mess is not of the Premier League’s making. Ultimate responsibility for another charge for overspending, having already been docked 10 points, lies at the door of their outgoing owner Farhad Moshiri.

ca.news.yahoo.com

Carraghers piece in the Tory graph for anyone who’s hasn’t written it. He’s definitely been told by his paymasters not to criticise the premier league.

Utter waffle and a complete distraction piece from Carragher that.

Clearly the comms has gone out after the select committee yesterday to double down and save face. Jon Cross and the utter rubbish he’s spouting and a few others are clearly on the orders from the PL.

Bottom line, anger does nothing. Anger at people who’ve left or have checked out does nothing. Pitch invasions at Reading will do nothing…. Dealing with the here and now with the clubs situation financially and the future is important though and why it IS important to focus on the PL who are administering penalties and charges that are wholly disproportionate and inconsistent which also contradict what the CEO Masters claimed yesterday.

This is an existential threat to the future of our club and relegation is the least of our worries. Administration and financial ruin is and the human impact for staff, players and most importantly fans will be horrific.

This is exactly why those hit pieces and poorly informed statements by the media and pundits need calling out as there are so many poorly informed tribal types at other clubs who buy into the official line from the PL.

There will be a time and let’s be honest we did aim anger at the board with protests and marches but this is about the league punishing us for the future for the sins of the past yet are happy to look at other clubs including Chelsea and City different.
Masters says they’re different cases? They’re only different because of their status and special interest in the PL board and that right there is what really needs calling out.

There’s fans in the traditional sense, those that know when to put tribal allegiance to one side for the “greater good” but there’s “customers” who live on FIFA24 who lap up every social media post and get off on their glory hunting Sky Six commercially spoon fed product. That is what we are really up against.

 

[Jokerdan]

They were indeed issued in March but only days after Everton made their P&S Submission to the PL

Whilst we know that the IC supported the PLs take on matters such as interest I would find it impossible to believe that the highly paid money men at Everton hadn’t explored the requirements re the Interest after all its not the most complex of matters to get your head around . The issue around capitalisation of pre planning costs was identified in house and the PL did engage with Everton.

It’s easy to point a finger at the PL but Everton isn’t a tin pot business where the books are completed by a chap working on his own with a fag hanging out of his mouth located in a corner of porta cabin . The club engage accounts , have access to top quality legal and financial support from accounts who charge an arm and a leg surely someone would have identified the issue.

I wouldn't be too sure!

 

[WestStandLower]

If this is a truly club owned competition, surely they can vote on a sanction for each of the items that City are pulled on prior to the hearing. Rule W.17 breach (no idea if that exists) then if guilty must pay £100m to each PL club at time of breach, for each breach. Rule W.13 breach, 100 points deduction for each guilty verdict, served concurrently over seasons. Start prem on -300 points, then Championship on -280, etc. etc.

If its a majority vote, who's to stop it?

The whole process has to be independent otherwise any decision would be open to even more challenges.

Ok people may come straight back and say its not Independent but that question and such a process has already been confirmed in the courts

 

[gwladysnight]

They were indeed issued in March but only days after Everton made their P&S Submission to the PL

Whilst we know that the IC supported the PLs take on matters such as interest I would find it impossible to believe that the highly paid money men at Everton hadn’t explored the requirements re the Interest after all its not the most complex of matters to get your head around . The issue around capitalisation of pre planning costs was identified in house and the PL did engage with Everton.

It’s easy to point a finger at the PL but Everton isn’t a tin pot business where the books are completed by a chap working on his own with a fag hanging out of his mouth located in a corner of porta cabin . The club engage accountants , have access to top quality legal and financial support from massive accountancy firms who charge an arm and a leg surely someone would have identified the issue.

The pre-planning anomaly was identified in 2019 and we entered into an agreement with the Premier League in 2021.

As for having access to accountancy firms. The suggestion is that BDO walked away because they were not happy to sign off on the club's accounts. There was also DBB and Ingles refusal to appear in front of the IC and back Moshiri up.

This is on Moshiri. He is a billionaire with poor judgement who is used to getting his own way.

 

[MikeH72]

What is the point Spartacus. You don't mind me calling you Spartacus. If we are going to use pseudonyms, we might as well make them interesting eh?

BDO the auditors, DBB and Ingles all left all or were pushed for not going along with Moshiri's fantasy PSR deductions. All three wouldn't put their name to Mosiri's Jackanory figures.

I might not have been a fan of Kenwright, DBB and Ingles but at least they held Moshiri to account and added a level of scrutiny. What we have now is people hand picked by Moshiri.

What on earth are you waffling about Baileyjon.

For someone who complains so much about other people being tinfoil hat conspiracy theorists, you certainly deliver some absolute sewage yourself.

 

[WestStandLower]

I wouldn't be too sure!

Ouch. Understand your anger but I would suggest that there are several questions that need to be asked re the management decisions and the one I think is most pressing revolves not around the money put in but the case presented prior to the panel sitting . Was it a genuine interpretation of the P&S Regulations ? if it was why did the numbers presented by Everton change before the IC sat