Pat Van Den Hauwe or Leighton Baines

[PhilM]

Baines

80s and 00-10s are chalk and cheese

if you took most of the great 80s players and put them in the prem now they would be bewildered and blowing after 20 minutes

But that’s because the game has changed: it’s less now about pure footballing ability and more to do with being athletes who can play football.

If you swapped it around, most of today’s would limp off after a few minutes either because of the tackles or falling on the dodgy turf.

 

[Username.]

Pat van den hauwe all day everyday and twice on Sunday not even up for debate in my opinion so I'm not even coming on this thread again.

 

[Drico]

Baines way better going forward, Psycho way better defending.

I'm old school - I prefer my defenders to defend, first and foremost.

 

[Drico]

Baines

80s and 00-10s are chalk and cheese

if you took most of the great 80s players and put them in the prem now they would be bewildered and blowing after 20 minutes

If you gave the great players of the 80s the advantages current players take for granted vis-a-vis their time, then I think you'd find the 80s players were every bit as good. And I'm not even talking about fitness, recovery, and nutrition.

Great players are great players in any era.

If Maradona, Platini, Zico, Rummenigge, and van Basten played in an era where they were not subjected to weekly assassination attempts by the likes of the Butcher of Bilbao, Antonio Camacho, and Claudio Gentile, they'd have had an absolute field day in the era of Messi and Ronaldo.

Put Messi and Ronaldo back with those three lads, and see how many seasons they spent on the treatment table...

Oh, and that's before we get to the changes in the offside and backpass rule which, even more than the outlawing of the tackle from behind, opened the field up and made the man-marker virtually redundant.

A totally different game now. But the greats were the greats for a reason. And this is why I have never seen better than Maradona - because, unlike the magnificent Messi, I saw him do it even when the violent thugs kicked him from pillar to post with impunity.

 

[formerly manx toffee]

Loved Psycho Pay but Baines is Baines and that left foot wins for me

 

[blindbert]

If you gave the great players of the 80s the advantages current players take for granted vis-a-vis their time, then I think you'd find the 80s players were every bit as good. And I'm not even talking about fitness, recovery, and nutrition.

Great players are great players in any era.

If Maradona, Platini, Zico, Rummenigge, and van Basten played in an era where they were not subjected to weekly assassination attempts by the likes of the Butcher of Bilbao, Antonio Camacho, and Claudio Gentile, they'd have had an absolute field day in the era of Messi and Ronaldo.

Put Messi and Ronaldo back with those three lads, and see how many seasons they spent on the treatment table...

Oh, and that's before we get to the changes in the offside and backpass rule which, even more than the outlawing of the tackle from behind, opened the field up and made the man-marker virtually redundant.

A totally different game now. But the greats were the greats for a reason. And this is why I have never seen better than Maradona - because, unlike the magnificent Messi, I saw him do it even when the violent thugs kicked him from pillar to post with impunity.

Well said, couldn't agree more. I've been fortunate enough to see the likes of Bobby Moore, Lionel Messi, Paolo Maldini and Thierry Henry (plus others) in various eras of modern football. I'm going to throw in Alan Ball for good measure. All gifted footballers who would have risen to the top in any era, because they were among the most talented players of their generations. In 30 years time there will be people who will say Mbappe, Haaland, et all wouldn't be competitive. If I am still alive by then, I won't be one of them.

 

[StreetEndBlue]

Totally different style of left backs. Loved Baines but would go for PVDH here as he played in a side which brought unprecedented success to the club and no right winger relished playing against him.

I see a few have said Pat would spend lots of time suspended if he played now but he was a cleverer player than he's been given credit for as he'd adapt his game.

He filled in brilliantly at centre half too when Derek Mountfield spent September to March on the sidelines during the 85/86 season.

 

[Username.]

This thread should be who was the best but only vote if you've seen them both, and it was Pat without a shadow.

 

[roy vernon]

…my word, can’t believe the vote. As good as Baines was and I’m a huge fan of his, only Ray Wilson is above PVDH in the Everton LBs I’ve seen.

VdH was a Rolls Royce of a footballer, sadly the ‘Psycho’ tag diminishes his ability. He rarely had to get out of 2nd gear in a foot race, superbly effective as a right-footed LB. I never saw him as a ‘dirty’ player because he didn’t have to be dirty.

One amazing and often overlook achievement was his part in our ‘87 title win. Because of injuries he played CB for a large part of that season (Paul Power covering at LB) and he was magnificent, actually scoring the goal that sealed the title at Norwich.

Loved watching Baines, but VdH without a doubt was a fantastic player who’s immensely underrated. Think Rolls Royce and not Psycho and your closer to the descriptor.

It's all about opinions mate, I would say, that in my opinion, as good as Van Den Hauwe was, and I loved him to bits, Baines was second only to Ramon Wilson as a left back in my 60 plus years watching the blues, but, and I stress this, that is my opinion and whilst I believe it to be correct, I have no difficulty with others thinking differently.

 

[Alan Whittle]

Surely PVDH would spend more time suspended these days? His kind of proper tackling is frowned upon these days. Some player mind.

 

[matty1878]

View attachment 299808
Not even a contest

all
day

 

[DualityNSNO]

If you gave the great players of the 80s the advantages current players take for granted vis-a-vis their time, then I think you'd find the 80s players were every bit as good. And I'm not even talking about fitness, recovery, and nutrition.

Great players are great players in any era.

If Maradona, Platini, Zico, Rummenigge, and van Basten played in an era where they were not subjected to weekly assassination attempts by the likes of the Butcher of Bilbao, Antonio Camacho, and Claudio Gentile, they'd have had an absolute field day in the era of Messi and Ronaldo.

Put Messi and Ronaldo back with those three lads, and see how many seasons they spent on the treatment table...

Oh, and that's before we get to the changes in the offside and backpass rule which, even more than the outlawing of the tackle from behind, opened the field up and made the man-marker virtually redundant.

A totally different game now. But the greats were the greats for a reason. And this is why I have never seen better than Maradona - because, unlike the magnificent Messi, I saw him do it even when the violent thugs kicked him from pillar to post with impunity.

In the same vein - with the same "bringing up" the great players of today will be great in the older eras as well though, no? Or is it just a nostalgia-based view that's accepted and it doesn't work the other way?

 

[davek]

Never mind or Van Den Hauwe, I'd rather have Paul Power or Bailey than Baines.

Winners.

 

[Eggs]

Surely PVDH would spend more time suspended these days? His kind of proper tackling is frowned upon these days. Some player mind.

….that’s the point, he wasn’t a dirty player because he didn’t have to be. Terrific athlete, I don’t remember him regularly having to go to ground to dispossess an opponent. He was clearly a bit nuts, slept with his eyes open etc, but as far as football goes he wasn’t a liability.

 

[Drico]

In the same vein - with the same "bringing up" the great players of today will be great in the older eras as well though, no? Or is it just a nostalgia-based view that's accepted and it doesn't work the other way?

Of course the great players of today would be great in the past. But they wouldn't be as cleanly successful as they are today - simply because they would be kicked from pillar to post. But they would adapt. They would likely spend a sizeable amount of their careers on the treatment table and they would be man-marked in most games, as was the custom of the time (under the old rules). But we'd still see the flashes of brilliance and a Messi or Cristiano Ronaldo in the 80s would, no doubt, invent new ways to make an impact.

Talent is talent.

The old days weren't always the best - and the current years suffer from recency bias. But you'll always know a great player when you see one, whatever the era.