Not good enough

[Melvin Udal]

Despite being frustrated at the lack of transfers so far (and I'm obviously not alone in this), I hope that this doesn't come across as a self-indulgent rant at everyone and everything at the club, just to make me feel better. I completely believe that nobody is "dithering" or sitting on their arse, which some people at the club are accused of on a regular basis. My personal view, based on scant evidence, admittedly, is also that Bill K is, in his own mind, genuinely trying hard to find someone to take over and invest funds (although I accept that others draw a different conclusion). The purpose of this message, though, is to point out that trying hard simply isn't good enough.

If the manager of any club tried very hard, but got consistently bad results over an extended period, he'd be despatched down the road by the Board, even though they appreciated his efforts. Everton may be 'fuming' at losing Naughton because of Spurs'/Sheffield United's underhandedness, but Moyes would have no sympathy with a centre back who repeatedly let the opposition score because he had his foot stood on or his shirt pulled. In any profession, at any level, the bottom line is that you do what you have to do to be effective - good intentions and effort alone just don't cut it.

BK has failed over a long period to get the investment that he knows and says is necessary. For at least the last two seasons. 'Everton officials' have failed to get the players we need at the appropriate time. (This year's intake should be in the US already, to get in a proper pre-season). As I said earlier, I accept that everybody is trying their best, and I know that it's hard to get investment in a recession, or to conclude transfers with not much money and players, agents and clubs all lying through their teeth half the time. Unfortunately, 'hard' is the name of the game, and you've either got to get effective or get out. The manager and players have proved their effectiveness over the past few seasons, while others at the club seem to have proved the opposite. In my view, it's time that some people got out.

(Not all that constructive a message, admittedly, but I feel better for saying it, anyway).

 

[Goat]

Something isnt right somewhere, I dont wish to point fingers or believe it or not really jump on the clubs back. But something is preventing us from signing players. As I say i dont know what, but it happens far too much for me.

I know that sometimes its just a paper talk and we havent even bid for half the players that is reported. I would be interested in finding out what the problem is.

Maybe Liverpool as a City isnt really that appealing, maybe Moyes does come across as too stern, maybe we just dont go that extra mile in making players feel they should move, maybe we just dont offer enough in terms of wages. I dont know.

What we do offer is an excellent manager, a wonderful fanbase, a team spirit next to none and the best recent league placings of every other team but 4.

It doesnt make sense to me, but clearly we are biased, I mean if you could pick any team in the world to play for, we would all pick Everton.

 

[davek]

Fully agree with you mate. There's an embarrassing imbalance in performance at the club between the playing and non-playing sides. The latter are putting all their eggs in the 'facility led' basket. When or if that model is obliterated with the upcoming stadium decision in the autumn, there's going to be a reckoning at the club.

 

[McBain]

Who cares about Kyle Nobody.

Who would you pick? Spurs or European fighting, FA Cup finalists EVERTON?

Were the only hurdle to a spot in the first team at RB isnt so much a hurdle as millimeter high Speed Hump? More a crease in the Tarmac?

Forget Kylie 'I should be so lucky' Minoghton, get out of your system what you have to and move along.

And welcome Melvs.

 

[McBain]

Fully agree with you mate. There's an embarrassing imbalance in performance at the club between the playing and non-playing sides. The latter are putting all their eggs in the 'facility led' basket. When or if that model is obliterated with the upcoming stadium decision in the autumn, there's going to be a reckoning at the club.

Davek If GOT was an action movie you'd be the Cop with two days to retire.

 

[Melvin Udal]

I know that we have no interest in 4 out of 5, or maybe 9 out of 10, players we're linked with, but there's no denying that we haven't got any investment after years of trying, we signed nobody of note for last season until ten seconds to midnight on the last day, and we've signed nobody (apart from Jo/loan again) in this window, even though pre-season preparations are already well under way. The best of us can make a cock-up sometimes (Jagielka - pass to Ashley Young, Moyes - Koldrup), but when you're consistently bordering on useless, eventually something has got to give. (Let's hope it's not Moyes).

 

[chicoazul]

I reckon he does alright with the signings, he generally scouts them rather than youtubing them which Newcastle and Spurs clearly do.

He wont just have a list of one right back to buy, he'll find someone acer, someone who knows that Everton is a better option than Spurs.

If Naughton signs for Spurs, then fair enough - boss character reference that.

 

[kenada_blue]

Club structure IMO. Its financial structure, wage structure, transfer structure all seem to have guidlines that are hard to break from.

We're not a money bags club. So when a player, as with the case with Naughton, is already set and is scuppered by a fee that doubles our initial fee we can only do 2 things - Raise are bid...or stand firm.

This has happened plenty of times in the recent past for players we've been in bidding wars in -

Manny Fernandes (a double money off came from Valencia)
Dave Nugent (Wobbily Head paid £6mill for him when we wouldnt bunge on £4, theres a theme with that cnut)
Aaron Ramsey (We woldnt bundge on £3mill, went to Arsenal)
Moutinho (Rumoured £15mill bid...Sporting wanted £18...end of that) *figures maybe wrong*

It seems that what we do is set out a certain price for a player and arent willing to budge. Where as your Spurs etc can easily start off at a £5mill bid that rises to £10mill in the negotiations, we cant due to the financial structure of the club it seems.

That's not blame pointing, that's just the nature of how the club is and why its not on its knees financially like a large chunk of clubs in the premiership.

If we've got to bring 4 players into the club there has to be a set amount of cash the club is willing to spend from the kitty on the player. So Naughton could've been here if we raised our £4mill to £6mill for eg...but that would have serious effects on other dealing because we've over-spent on one player by £2million.

That's my view anyway. But in the long run we tend to dodge bullets and get it right more times that wrong.

 

[evilwebby]

Fully agree. I think we are all feeling this way. The manager and players are doing us proud, but otherwise the management of the club is incompetent and we are unable to compete with other clubs for players who the manager has identified.

I said in the Naughton thread that this constantly happens - it's not good enough if we aspire to our club motto, and heads should roll until the management of the club is how we all want it to be.

 

[BlackToffee]

There will always be issues when we talk about transfers. In the case of Kyle we messed up only in the respect we didn't up our offer. But if we did, every single club can agree a fee, and then up their offer each time. Its happened before.

While I applaud Everton's stance, I think that we need to at elast go part way to meeting a reviewed valuation, such as add on's for appearance, internation caps etc.

When we are in the fight with say Wigan, for me there's no contest and we usually win these battles for a player. A team such as Tottenham are a different proposition and we should be prepared to fight dirty if we really want our man. Tottenham have shown that.

Bit angry about this as I viewed it as a litmus test, clearly in terms of fighting off the more monyed clubs, we are at a distinct disadvantage.

 

[trebilcock66]

Would the complainers please help me to understand what it is they want? Please answer:

- what exactly you would like the board to do that they are currently not doing?

- where exactly the incompetence lies - who is incompetent and in what way? And it won't do to say that "BK should be doing better at geting investment" Unless you've got solid, verifiable info that he's turned down genuine offers of finance or that he's not trying to sell the club, you're guessing like the rest of us.

- If BK's not good enough for you, who do you suggest instead? OK, you may not be able to name names of shiekhs but what sort of investor would you like? Like the guy at Man City - no thanks. Yes to a Randy Lerner-type but nobody with monetary diarrhoea, please.

I'm frustrated like everyone else and feel that DM could achieve a lot with just a little more cash but this fingerpointing at Kenwright seems pointless, unfair and ill informed to me.

Just my point of view (like you have yours) so I have no intention of getting into a verbal war with anyone

 

[Richard Parker]

I can completely understand the reaction of some of the folk on here. It's really disappointing to miss out on Naughton, a player that I feel would have done really well for us and himself had he signed. I remember we were in this exact situation last summer, trying desperately to sign players as the start of the season got closer. I also remember Moyes & BK saying they were hoping to learn from the experience and get things right for this season. So far, we've signed a couple of kids, Jo on loan again, we've missed out on one of our primary targets and are in real danger of losing one of our two fit centre halves. Coupled with the injury situation & the extra workload this year, as far as I'm concerned we have taken a few steps backwards.

Saying that, I don't think Naughton is the only decent right full out there. And we have been linked with some quality players, Cana & Elm in particular. I'd like to think that Moyes has identified these players as having the qualities necessary to improve the squad rather than just being idle newspaper gossip, so on that front it's encouraging at least. Just need to sign a couple of them up now.

 

[ChicagoToffee]

Vent away, lads. Get if off your chest - whatever it is that you think is wrong with Everton - lack of money, dithering, Kenwright, etc....

The simple truth is we'll all still be supporting Everton in the end - whoever is on the pitch. We'd all like have some signings not only for the club but it gives Everton supporters something to discuss, to beat our chests about, and to build the anticipation of seeing the signing acheive what we've aspired for him to achieve. When rumours collapse (as they mostly do), it's good for us to feel jilted collectively - commiseration is nice.

The nervy item that is getting overlooked is how long will Moyes be willing to put up with the lack of transfer money twice per season. He showed what he can do last season on a small budget, with a small side hampered with devastating injuries. His ambition to win is going to trump his loyalty and Everton are either unable or unwilling to give him what he needs to do both.

 

[Goat]

Would the complainers please help me to understand what it is they want? Please answer:

- what exactly you would like the board to do that they are currently not doing?

- where exactly the incompetence lies - who is incompetent and in what way? And it won't do to say that "BK should be doing better at geting investment" Unless you've got solid, verifiable info that he's turned down genuine offers of finance or that he's not trying to sell the club, you're guessing like the rest of us.

- If BK's not good enough for you, who do you suggest instead? OK, you may not be able to name names of shiekhs but what sort of investor would you like? Like the guy at Man City - no thanks. Yes to a Randy Lerner-type but nobody with monetary diarrhoea, please.

I'm frustrated like everyone else and feel that DM could achieve a lot with just a little more cash but this fingerpointing at Kenwright seems pointless, unfair and ill informed to me.

Just my point of view (like you have yours) so I have no intention of getting into a verbal war with anyone

To be honest mate, ive just scanned the thread quickly and nobody has even mentioned Kenwrong. Some of us are just asking why we fail to secure signings. Im fairly sure it happens to every Club.

We are just looking for answers to questions that cant be answered, just a little discussion really.

 

[trebilcock66]

Fully agree. I think we are all feeling this way. The manager and players are doing us proud, but otherwise the management of the club is incompetent and we are unable to compete with other clubs for players who the manager has identified.

I said in the Naughton thread that this constantly happens - it's not good enough if we aspire to our club motto, and heads should roll until the management of the club is how we all want it to be.

I assume that's a pop at BK or Elstone or both?

No dramas, Mikel's Goat. I'm cool with the discussion - just don't understand what people's dissatisfaction is based on...