New Everton Stadium Discussion

[dockroad]

At the moment, transportation appears to be reliant on people walking to the ground, utilising Sandhills (concerns about this), shuttle buses and parking.

A few thoughts on Sandhills . Believe it or not there are currently 10 trains an hour from Sandhills into town because 3 different services run through from Southport ,Kirkby and Ormskirk . So the maximum wait on the platform would be little more than 5 minutes .I can't see much scope for an increase in that frequency . If you're going into town it might not make sense to walk to Sandhills and then queue . Going North also 10 trains an hour split between the 3 destinations.
So ,in my opinion ,no problem with trains frequency as such but getting onto Sandhills station post-match will require split queues as there is only the one entrance for both directions . Crowd corralling seemed to work well at Wembley Park last time we were there so I expect to see something similar. No news from Merseyrail yet though.

 

[Tom Hughes]

Totally different type of audience to football.

Not any night games at Twickenham.

 

[PhilM]

A few thoughts on Sandhills . Believe it or not there are currently 10 trains an hour from Sandhills into town because 3 different services run through from Southport ,Kirkby and Ormskirk . So the maximum wait on the platform would be little more than 5 minutes .I can't see much scope for an increase in that frequency . If you're going into town it might not make sense to walk to Sandhills and then queue . Going North also 10 trains an hour split between the 3 destinations.
So ,in my opinion ,no problem with trains frequency as such but getting onto Sandhills station post-match will require split queues as there is only the one entrance for both directions . Crowd corralling seemed to work well at Wembley Park last time we were there so I expect to see something similar. No news from Merseyrail yet though.

I'm not an expert on this, by any means, but my concern has been how increased attendance will be distributed through potentially fewer transport links.

At the moment, rail links are primarily split between Sandhill, with the soccer bus, and Kirkdale. This distributes rail passengers between two stations + Bank Hall.

You also have numerous bus routes in close proximity to the ground that help take passengers from the city centre and then beyond, plus to the suburbs.

Queens Drive has the 60, 61, 62 and 81, which provides links to Bootle to the north and large swathes of South Liverpool. There's the 68 along Priory Road.

You then have the 14, 17 and 19 routes from town to Croxteth, Kirkby et al. Right now, BMD doesn't appear to offer anywhere near the same capacity.

So, I suspect passenger numbers for Sandhill may increase significantly, which will put extra pressure on getting onto trains that are currently split across stations.

More people using fewer stations and less bus routes doesn't sound ideal to me.

 

[dockroad]

I'm not an expert on this, by any means, but my concern has been how increased attendance will be distributed through potentially fewer transport links.

At the moment, rail links are primarily split between Sandhill, with the soccer bus, and Kirkdale. This distributes rail passengers between two stations + Bank Hall.

You also have numerous bus routes in close proximity to the ground that help take passengers from the city centre and then beyond, plus to the suburbs.

Queens Drive has the 60, 61, 62 and 81, which provides links to Bootle to the north and large swathes of South Liverpool. There's the 68 along Priory Road.

You then have the 14, 17 and 19 routes from town to Croxteth, Kirkby et al. Right now, BMD doesn't appear to offer anywhere near the same capacity.

So, I suspect passenger numbers for Sandhill may increase significantly, which will put extra pressure on getting onto trains that are currently split across stations.

More people using fewer stations and less bus routes doesn't sound ideal to me.

I don't disagree mate but I reckon the powers that be are banking on thousands of people staying at BMD and the immediate area OR walking into town for what we might call refreshments . You can get away from Goodison to all points of the compass but it will be much more difficult at BMD . Passenger numbers will increase at Sandhills but as it's an island platform on top of a viaduct so virtually impossible to enlarge. So it's down to crowd control to cope with the numbers and this may discourage many fans from using it. The only mention of a new station came from our old mate Joe Andersen and if they started today it would take a few years to plan ,finance and build it so that's not happening any time soon. Getting in and out by road will be a living nightmare especailly the first few games until people get the hang of it. A few pubs like the Winslow are talking about shuttle buses btw.

 

[Togger Blue]

What is the maximum number of passengers on the normal train service passing through Sandhills? Multiply it by 20 per hour (10 in each direction). Even at a modest 300 per train (which would already have passengers on board!), that's only dispersing 6000 leaving 47000 to scarper by other means.

 

[Timinenfield]

I don't disagree mate but I reckon the powers that be are banking on thousands of people staying at BMD and the immediate area OR walking into town for what we might call refreshments . You can get away from Goodison to all points of the compass but it will be much more difficult at BMD . Passenger numbers will increase at Sandhills but as it's an island platform on top of a viaduct so virtually impossible to enlarge. So it's down to crowd control to cope with the numbers and this may discourage many fans from using it. The only mention of a new station came from our old mate Joe Andersen and if they started today it would take a few years to plan ,finance and build it so that's not happening any time soon. Getting in and out by road will be a living nightmare especailly the first few games until people get the hang of it. A few pubs like the Winslow are talking about shuttle buses btw.

There will be a difference bet afternoon games and night time games
as clearly people don’t linger as much after evening matches
thats when the transport infrastructure will be tested more

 

[Brennan]

I'm not an expert on this, by any means, but my concern has been how increased attendance will be distributed through potentially fewer transport links.

At the moment, rail links are primarily split between Sandhill, with the soccer bus, and Kirkdale. This distributes rail passengers between two stations + Bank Hall.

You also have numerous bus routes in close proximity to the ground that help take passengers from the city centre and then beyond, plus to the suburbs.

Queens Drive has the 60, 61, 62 and 81, which provides links to Bootle to the north and large swathes of South Liverpool. There's the 68 along Priory Road.

You then have the 14, 17 and 19 routes from town to Croxteth, Kirkby et al. Right now, BMD doesn't appear to offer anywhere near the same capacity.

So, I suspect passenger numbers for Sandhill may increase significantly, which will put extra pressure on getting onto trains that are currently split across stations.

More people using fewer stations and less bus routes doesn't sound ideal to me.

Transport links will be improved with time. Bus routes are an easy to thing to add if the demand is there which it will be.

 

[Toffeeslam]

Not any night games at Twickenham.

Nice stadium but weird location, I live near by and getting in and out during match day is a nightmare.

So it makes sense to hang about till that all subsides so it works there as the a312 turns into a carpark

 

[cooperman]

I don't disagree mate but I reckon the powers that be are banking on thousands of people staying at BMD and the immediate area OR walking into town for what we might call refreshments . You can get away from Goodison to all points of the compass but it will be much more difficult at BMD . Passenger numbers will increase at Sandhills but as it's an island platform on top of a viaduct so virtually impossible to enlarge. So it's down to crowd control to cope with the numbers and this may discourage many fans from using it. The only mention of a new station came from our old mate Joe Andersen and if they started today it would take a few years to plan ,finance and build it so that's not happening any time soon. Getting in and out by road will be a living nightmare especailly the first few games until people get the hang of it. A few pubs like the Winslow are talking about shuttle buses btw.

There's space for another platform on the viaduct on the other side of the tracks on the side towards the docks... Just long enough for a 5 carriage train I think

With a bit of joined up thinking it's feasible to have that platform in use just on match days with a separate entrance. That way they can have one for each direction

They could also make the station access northbound only after the match if things get too busy on the island

Although most locals will be going north, a lot will go to Sandhills to go south and then onwards to the Wirral etc

By far the best option is a new station next to where the canal goes past the Titanic hotel. It would be good for the ten streets as well, plus at the new build flats they're planning. The viaduct is wide enough for two platforms. The track will need realigning though.

 

[Ralphie Boy]

Numbers quoted for egress of stadium also need to take in the following:
Away support at maybe 5000.
Hospitality 5000.
Hangers on at the stadium local boozers etc 3000.
Walk ins to town for both and Lime Street or Central for South Liverpool and Widnes etc 5000.
Drivers their are lots of nooks crannies as well as parking locally 3000 cars could be 7500 supporters.

Above could total half of the stadium so maybe only 25000 needing trains, buses to and don’t forget to factor in the secure bike parking that Blue Bill promised us and we would only be looking at a few thousand using public transport.

The simple answer for exiting the stadium i we just don’t know until the club briefs us which will probably be on e day of the opening game!

 

[Timinenfield]

They will obviously know about the flow of people and traffic out of the ground
plus there will be test events to to iron out any potential issues

 

[suave 1878]

I’m sure there will be teething issues but tbf with all the potential hospitality available pre and post match I suspect match day experience will be far different than gp. I’ve been fortunate to attend gp in the lounge and within 30 mins traffic has disappeared. Fans will want to attend the stadium well before kickoff and many will stay beyond the final whistle.
Personally I’m looking to expand my experience with pre match beverages and post match too in a magnificent new stadium ?

 

[Tom Hughes]

The transport plan is quite a loose broadbrush document...... (unless a revised one has been posted since I last read it). It has the usual maps with arrows and box tickers like temporary road closures, car parking and shuttle bus routes etc.

It has also stated very clearly that there will need to be a substantial modal shift away from car useage to avoid serious gridlock. Presumably, traffic modelling has identified limitations in the surrounding road network that requires a quite radical shift. Apparently, at GP it's currently 60:40 private to public transport useage. The club said right from the outset that these proportions needed to be at least reversed. We all know the resultant levels of congestion this causes post match at GP.

As others have said, GP currently has far more public transport on its doorstep and many more traffic lanes serving it in multiple directions. On top of that, of course the walking catchment is at least double that of BMD.

In transport terms, BMD's saving grace is proximity to the city centre (1mile to the edge of town with all its transport hubs and services) and to the Northern line (1km). However, it is almost as far from Lime Street Station as Goodison is from it. Shuttle buses are great if they're in sufficient numbers and there are enough traffic free(ish) lanes for them to shift the numbers of people effectively. There is massive demand for shuttle buses at both existing grounds but too few spare buses/drivers in the system and few if any independent operators queuing up to supply them. Quicker turnaround times for shuttles into a closer city centre may make it more efficient and cost effective for independents.... the club may want to subsidise with tickets including free public transport across the city region.

A new station at Vauxhall would greatly lighten the load at Sandhills and offer a better north/south or Wirral split of passengers. Hopefully, in the longer term Liverpool waters scheme will prompt it's own services, including its own dedicated rapid transit system. Extending/redirecting a proportion of existing bus services to feed the site or the proposed Lime line trackless trams could be suitable to fill the gaps but are not mentioned for some reason.

 

[Timbucktoo]

Numbers quoted for egress of stadium also need to take in the following:
Away support at maybe 5000.
Hospitality 5000.
Hangers on at the stadium local boozers etc 3000.
Walk ins to town for both and Lime Street or Central for South Liverpool and Widnes etc 5000.
Drivers their are lots of nooks crannies as well as parking locally 3000 cars could be 7500 supporters.

Above could total half of the stadium so maybe only 25000 needing trains, buses to and don’t forget to factor in the secure bike parking that Blue Bill promised us and we would only be looking at a few thousand using public transport.

The simple answer for exiting the stadium i we just don’t know until the club briefs us which will probably be on e day of the opening game!

Blue Bill promise? Don`t hold your breath waiting for that to happen mate.

 

[radiostar]

Unless the build a bridge or a ferry terminal there is only sort of two ways away from the ground - sort of north towards Sandhills or back towards town.

Not sure the infrastructure will be able to cope.

Positioning of the away fans will be interesting too. With there being only fairly narrow passageways on three sides of the ground depending on where they are housed, might we see them held back after games ?