Moyes on Goals on Sunday

[Neiler]

Europe is the key. That's where the money is. You couldn't have a manager training on the job with one of those clubs. Villas-Boas at least won the EL before being offered Chelsea. And let's face it, when push came to shove against decent teams in Europe Moyes couldn't hack it.

In short, he gives bosses of CL involved clubs no reason to employ him.

For me thats a bit simplistic, its futile trying to compare Evertons European record to teams who can spend 100's of millions - because thats the deciding factor really. What is of relevance is getting a club from relegation fodder into CL/Europe anyway, its debateable which is the bigger quantam leap: getting a team that in the main had to wait untill the last of the season to snsure PL status in to Europe or being in Europe to actaully winning a European trophy.

Now that the word budget is being loosley applied to bigger clubs, i can see Daveys skills beocming more and more marketable.

I very much doubt hes been here ten years without job offers if im honest.

 

[davek]

For me thats a bit simplistic, its futile trying to compare Evertons European record to teams who can spend 100's of millions - because thats the deciding factor really. What is of relevance is getting a club from relegation fodder into CL/Europe anyway, its debateable which is the bigger quantam leap: getting a team that in the main had to wait untill the last of the season to snsure PL status in to Europe or being in Europe to actaully winning a European trophy.

Now that the word budget is being loosley applied to bigger clubs, i can see Daveys skills beocming more and more marketable.

I very much doubt hes been here ten years without job offers if im honest.

Villas Boas got Porto the EL - didn't spend half as much as Everton did on players I'd wager. Hodgson got Fulham to the final - of the EL after being there a few seasons and with virtually nothing to spend (even Walter Smith took a team assembled for buttons to the final!!). Let's face it, we've been appaling in Europe when it mattered. A decent night's work against Fiorentina aside, it's been embarrrasing for Moyes. And I'd guess he knows it too.

 

[peteblue]

Didn't see the show. Europe is obviously the key but if we had just a bit more investment we would be there. Davey would kill for the money that the RS have p!ssed up the wall.

 

[Deleted member 28206]

Suggesting Moyes would be good with big money is a bit hopeful. He has had greater success with smaller fee signings (Mikel, Lescott, Timmy, Howard, Weir, Baines) than the bigger, ( bily, Yak?, Beattie, AJ?) I think his ability to spot a bargain and nurture this + less "top four " pressure makes him a good manager, not sure splurging is his style.

 

[Deleted member 28206]

I know Bainsey cost more than BT FFS

 

[somuchfun]

I have to agree with davek that while Moyes has a steady record in PL he's not really managed to achieve anything of note, a few surges up the table but the most important factor is what he's done for the last few seasons which is pretty much nothing, we've actually went a bit backwards even though before last season we had pushed the boat out.

I'm sure Moyes and BK would agree that their five year plan on getting us stay in Europe has failed. Sure we could've had more buffer to allow us wheel and deal and freshen the squad and there's also been new contenders for European places, but with the wages and stability we've had, we could've, and prolly should've done better.

Without any prior success, any outsider would only had the past few seasons to judge Moyes from and it wouldn't look that convincing. If Moyes would go to Chelsea, City or pretty much any other team he'd get fired before he could have a chance for such a surge.

I'm sure he can get better results out of us and maybe we'll win the cup and refreshen a bit and then be on the up again, but while he might have his plaudits in the papers telling us how he punches above his weight, he really hasn't been doing that lately.

 

[Neiler]

Villas Boas got Porto the EL - didn't spend half as much as Everton did on players I'd wager. Hodgson got Fulham to the final - of the EL after being there a few seasons and with virtually nothing to spend (even Walter Smith took a team assembled for buttons to the final!!). Let's face it, we've been appaling in Europe when it mattered. A decent night's work against Fiorentina aside, it's been embarrrasing for Moyes. And I'd guess he knows it too.

Porto spent a fair whack in comparative terms to be honest: http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/fc-porto/transferbilanz/verein_720.html

TBH Rangers were blessed with luck, Fulham did well and all credit to them - i rate Hodgeson if i am honest prob higher then Arry. But then Davey is a good 20 years younger and we're seriously not suggesting Walter Smith is a better manager then Davey.

To be honest i think your a bit glum in terms of how we did in Europe, the only time i think we were out played really was against Benfica in a group game and Sporting - if i remember correctly we were decimated by injuries on both occasions.

Id hardly call what happened against Villareal and Fiorentina a reflection on poor management if im honest. By that rationale the likes of Wenger, Redknapp etc are as bad as Moyes for not having won a trophy, there are only two a season.

 

[toffeejack]

Porto spent a fair whack in comparative terms to be honest: http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/fc-porto/transferbilanz/verein_720.html

TBH Rangers were blessed with luck, Fulham did well and all credit to them - i rate Hodgeson if i am honest prob higher then Arry. But then Davey is a good 20 years younger and we're seriously not suggesting Walter Smith is a better manager then Davey.

To be honest i think your a bit glum in terms of how we did in Europe, the only time i think we were out played really was against Benfica in a group game and Sporting - if i remember correctly we were decimated by injuries on both occasions.

Id hardly call what happened against Villareal and Fiorentina a reflection on poor management if im honest. By that rationale the likes of Wenger, Redknapp etc are as bad as Moyes for not having won a trophy, there are only two a season.

agree with your eurpean statements about us

 

[Christiffa25]

I think moyes seems to get a harsh hand in regards to are European jolly's.

Europe is a learning curve and moyes went into it as a rookie. It took fergie and utd quite a few seasons to understand Europe. City were awfull this year as were utd.

The benfica team we lost to were actually a good side and we were injury ravaged at the time. Sporting were not a bad side either tbf.

We'v missed out the last couple of years purley down to no investment in the squad but would love to have Europe again next year. We have some very experienced European players now

 

[davek]

Porto spent a fair whack in comparative terms to be honest: http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/fc-porto/transferbilanz/verein_720.html

TBH Rangers were blessed with luck, Fulham did well and all credit to them - i rate Hodgeson if i am honest prob higher then Arry. But then Davey is a good 20 years younger and we're seriously not suggesting Walter Smith is a better manager then Davey.

To be honest i think your a bit glum in terms of how we did in Europe, the only time i think we were out played really was against Benfica in a group game and Sporting - if i remember correctly we were decimated by injuries on both occasions.

Id hardly call what happened against Villareal and Fiorentina a reflection on poor management if im honest. By that rationale the likes of Wenger, Redknapp etc are as bad as Moyes for not having won a trophy, there are only two a season.

That Porto data proves the opposite to what you think it does mate: they're consistently taking in more than they're spending on players - they're a selling club. All that just makes the EL win even more impressive.


As for Hodgson and Smith being explained away as 'luck'...pffft! It demonstrates to me that the EL is very winnable if you have those two able to compete....and we never got a sniff.

...and add Dinamo Bucharest to the Benfica and Port ties (and Liege who handily outplayed and beat us regardless of the marginal scoreline).

Bottom line: no club hoping to do well in the CL is taking a punt on Moyes until he improves that Euro record dramatically.

 

[Sylvain]

That Porto data proves the opposite to what you think it does mate: they're consistently taking in more than they're spending on players - they're a selling club. All that just makes the EL win even more impressive.

Never underestimate the impact of third party ownership, I'd suggest a lot of players arrive at porto because of third party ownership, which is allowed in the portugese liga.

If Moyes had access to some of the stars that have been and gone, or are currently at porto, he'd have a stronger record in PL and Europe.

 

[somuchfun]

Never underestimate the impact of third party ownership, I'd suggest a lot of players arrive at porto because of third party ownership, which is allowed in the portugese liga.

If Moyes had access to some of the stars that have been and gone, or are currently at porto, he'd have a stronger record in PL and Europe.

I think an important factor is that it's easier to get people from, say, Brazil to play in Portugal because of the language, the climate and the culture as compared to north-west England. But in the context of what Moyes has achieved in Europe as in concrete achievements he's not really done much to tempt a richer club to go after him, and there are many better bets inside the English game for such positions, not to mention people with proper track record with bigger teams and Europe. Which I think was what davek was after.

 

[GraemeS1980]

Egg on toast, Bill must be on the bones of his @rse!

 

[Brennan]

I think an important factor is that it's easier to get people from, say, Brazil to play in Portugal because of the language, the climate and the culture as compared to north-west England. But in the context of what Moyes has achieved in Europe as in concrete achievements he's not really done much to tempt a richer club to go after him, and there are many better bets inside the English game for such positions, not to mention people with proper track record with bigger teams and Europe. Which I think was what davek was after.

Clearly you have never experienced Costa Del Wirral.