Moyes after three

[Robert Jarvis]

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/ever...at-they-ve-got-at-everton-fc-100252-27853747/

What a thoroughly depressing read that is.

We are a club, according to the manager, that can offer players a way of developing their game (presumably to move on to better things), and the emphasis is on wage control now (which will make it even harder for Everton to attract quality players in...if the cash was there to buy them with recycled money from player sales in the first place, of course).

I wish this feller would grow a pair and demand investment. Or maybe he's happy to sit on his £3M pa wage and manage a Premier League team without confronting his board of directors? I'm begining to severely question this man's ambitions for Everton. We're going through the motions here. He has to act.

It is so depressing Dave, but I fear that is our current way. Which in one respect is why I did not give an OTT endorsement to LCAB's Moyes story but also fits in with my thread about our directors.

 

[davek]

It is so depressing Dave, but I fear that is our current way. Which in one respect is why I did not give an OTT endorsement to LCAB's Moyes story but also fits in with my thread about our directors.

I've got nothing against Moyes, but he's treading water and worse now with this club. All the talk when he arrived of being ambitious and shooting for the top has morphed into 'we'll reassess what season we can possibly have after the Christmas period is over' and highlighting developing players' career prospects if they sign for Everton smacks of what a manager of West Ham would say. It's frightening to think he's now settled for this. The other week he berated himself for having ambition beyond Premier League safety at the start of the season. This was the feller we all looked to drag us into the big time again. Fair enough, it's not his fault we haven't done that. But by not demanding investment into the club and nodding in approval at the shower of [Poor language removed] in that boardroom (and outside it) he's become part of the problem.

 

[kenada_blue]

I've got nothing against Moyes, but he's treading water and worse now with this club. All the talk when he arrived of being ambitious and shooting for the top has morphed into 'we'll reassess what season we can possibly have after the Christmas period is over' and highlighting developing players' career prospects if they sign for Everton smacks of what a manager of West Ham would say. It's frightening to think he's now settled for this. The other week he berated himself for having ambition beyond Premier League safety at the start of the season. This was the feller we all looked to drag us into the big time again. Fair enough, it's not his fault we haven't done that. But by not demanding investment into the club and nodding in approval at the shower of [Poor language removed] in that boardroom (and outside it) he's become part of the problem.

Moyes sounds more and more fed up with the situation in each interview he gives.

 

[Deleted member 28206]

It's debt that Bill inherited that we've never been able to pay off.
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...ebt-league-how-much-do-clubs-owe-1912244.html

In 08-09, from an operating profit of £6.3m, we paid out £4.1m in interest on a £37.9m debt. When we sell players like Rooney and Lescott, that gets reinvested in the team. Other than that, we're just keeping our heads above water. I'd much sooner that we manage our finances prudently, with the aim of going into profit like Stoke or West Brom, than going hundreds of millions of pounds into debt trying to keep up with the mega-rich.

thanks mate, will get me teeth into this later

 

[ijjysmith]

Amokachi, Bakayoko (the next George Weah i heard) and Nyarko please

 

[billycopper]

Arsenal are a 'selling club'. United are in a different league to us, but they can't pay for the world's best players any more. They use their scouting network to uncover potential, develop it and move it on. If Real came in with a massive offer for Vidic or Nani, they'd be on their way. There's a heirarchy in football. End of. Given our financial constraints, we've been punching above our weight during Moyes's reign. The league has moved on again in that time, while we've plateaued.

That being said, man for man, we can hold our own with anyone in the league and a run of results over the Christmas period could see us right back in the mix for European football. The gaffer was justified in saying that this is the best squad that he's ever had. Things haven't worked out as we would have hoped so far this season, but just a few tweaks and a bit of confidence and everyone will be saying what a good team we are again.

 

[kenada_blue]

Arsenal are a 'selling club'. United are in a different league to us, but they can't pay for the world's best players any more. They use their scouting network to uncover potential, develop it and move it on. If Real came in with a massive offer for Vidic or Nani, they'd be on their way. There's a heirarchy in football. End of. Given our financial constraints, we've been punching above our weight during Moyes's reign. The league has moved on again in that time, while we've plateaued.

That being said, man for man, we can hold our own with anyone in the league and a run of results over the Christmas period could see us right back in the mix for European football. The gaffer was justified in saying that this is the best squad that he's ever had. Things haven't worked out as we would have hoped so far this season, but just a few tweaks and a bit of confidence and everyone will be saying what a good team we are again.

Isnt it more down to tweaks and changing of the way the team can play and get the best from it rather than trying to get 3 players in?

And Arsenal generally sell their [Poor language removed] and make a massive return. Cant think of a player other than Henry or Anelka that left Arsenal and did something.

 

[billycopper]

I agree. It bugs me that, on the whole Moyes's lineups are so predictable. I'm pleased that he's trying something new upfront tonight.

Good luck to Arsenal. I think I read that they need to sell £24m of talent each season for the next 15 years, or something daft, to pay for the Emirates. I would argue that even Henry and Anelka went downhill after they left. If we can sell players at the peak of their value, pick up bargain basement replacements and develop them 'the Everton way', I think we'll have a healthy club.

 

[davek]

I agree. It bugs me that, on the whole Moyes's lineups are so predictable. I'm pleased that he's trying something new upfront tonight.

Good luck to Arsenal. I think I read that they need to sell £24m of talent each season for the next 15 years, or something daft, to pay for the Emirates. I would argue that even Henry and Anelka went downhill after they left. If we can sell players at the peak of their value, pick up bargain basement replacements and develop them 'the Everton way', I think we'll have a healthy club.

*sigh*

 

[billycopper]

*sigh*

What's your alternative? Whether you're Wenger or Ferguson, you need to know when to move a player on and freshen things up.

 

[davek]

What's your alternative? Whether you're Wenger or Ferguson, you need to know when to move a player on and freshen things up.

They get a lot longer out of players at their peak than Everton do, as well you know. We bring them on and sell after they have a decent season and the first Big Three + City bid comes in. It's destabilising, not good business.

 

[billycopper]

We had no option with either Rooney or Lescott. We did, however, get the top price for them. Thankfully, we're not forced into selling players to pay off debts. On the whole, we decide when we want to sell. If somebody wanted to buy Jags, Baines, Rodwell or Arteta, they'd have to come up with a figure that we'd be stupid to turn down. How is that bad business?

 

[davek]

We had no option with either Rooney or Lescott. We did, however, get the top price for them. Thankfully, we're not forced into selling players to pay off debts. On the whole, we decide when we want to sell. If somebody wanted to buy Jags, Baines, Rodwell or Arteta, they'd have to come up with a figure that we'd be stupid to turn down. How is that bad business?

Because those players are the core of our team and we suffer when one gets sold, whereas Arsenal, United etc sell when they are good and ready by and large and have the resources to replace them with the next model up.

You're comparing chalk and cheese. It's good business for them when they sell for top dollar, it's usually unwanted interest when we sell out of necessity because we're run like a whelk stall off the pitch.

 

[billycopper]

Because those players are the core of our team and we suffer when one gets sold, whereas Arsenal, United etc sell when they are good and ready by and large and have the resources to replace them with the next model up.

You're comparing chalk and cheese. It's good business for them when they sell for top dollar, it's usually unwanted interest when we sell out of necessity because we're run like a whelk stall off the pitch.

Buy Lescott for £5m, sell for £24m after 3 good year's service. Buy Distin (£5m), Heitinga (£6.5m) and Bily (£12m). Distin plugs a gap. Hopefully he retains his value. If we develop the other two correctly, then they could be worth twice as much. So, we've got the equivalent of the £5m that we started, plus £37m in assets.

It's like selling a house that you've outgrown for 5 times what you bought it for, buying something modest to live in and another two to renovate and sell on. It's a winning formula, if you get it right.

 

[davek]

Buy Lescott for £5m, sell for £24m after 3 good year's service. Buy Distin (£5m), Heitinga (£6.5m) and Bily (£12m). Distin plugs a gap. Hopefully he retains his value. If we develop the other two correctly, then they could be worth twice as much. So, we've got the equivalent of the £5m that we started, plus £37m in assets.

It's like selling a house that you've outgrown for 5 times what you bought it for, buying something modest to live in and another two to renovate and sell on. It's a winning formula, if you get it right.

Mate, look at where we are as an organisation by going through that process: nowhere.

The proof of the pudding....