Messi "best player of all time"

[Papa Shango]

Two defenders eh?

What a post, you must know so much about football, not many people would have two defenders in their list, you see things others don't eh?

Messi at 8th? Wow! So controversial!

I'd have 10.

I was a defender in my playing days. Sod all you fancy dan attacking types.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

International footie the biggest stage of all? I would say the top 10 club sides in the world are better than the top 10 international sides by quite a distance. They can pick players from any country on earth, and play together each and every week so have much greater familiarity. International football used to be the pinnacle when most club sides only had domestic players, but that's long since ceased to be the case.

 

[Little Ralphy]

International footie the biggest stage of all? I would say the top 10 club sides in the world are better than the top 10 international sides by quite a distance. They can pick players from any country on earth, and play together each and every week so have much greater familiarity. International football used to be the pinnacle when most club sides only had domestic players, but that's long since ceased to be the case.

I don't doubt the club vs country logic, in terms of potential quality of side.

But it depends on how you look at biggest stage though. The Champions League final has yet to reach 500 million viewers Globally, whereas the World Cup final has anything from 1-3 billion viewers, depending on where you read it.

The World Cup gets far more viewers than anything else, as it attracts so many casuals, and a good World Cup run can capture the nation. Look at the scenes in France and Croatia alone yesterday. So in terms of 'eyes on', it's without doubt the biggest stage of all. The fact it's every 4 years as well, when club competitions are annual, makes it even more of an occasion to perform in, because you won't get many chances at it. Hence why it matters so much for a player to perform well in it. It carries far more pressure and reward than any other footballing competition.

 

[Connor]

 

[dholliday]

Two defenders eh?

What a post, you must know so much about football, not many people would have two defenders in their list, you see things others don't eh?

Messi at 8th? Wow! So controversial!

what a weird post.

The only sensible response I can think of is to ask you to share your top 10, Steve.

International footie the biggest stage of all? I would say the top 10 club sides in the world are better than the top 10 international sides by quite a distance. They can pick players from any country on earth, and play together each and every week so have much greater familiarity. International football used to be the pinnacle when most club sides only had domestic players, but that's long since ceased to be the case.

I don't doubt the club vs country logic, in terms of potential quality of side.

But it depends on how you look at biggest stage though. The Champions League final has yet to reach 500 million viewers Globally, whereas the World Cup final has anything from 1-3 billion viewers, depending on where you read it.

The World Cup gets far more viewers than anything else, as it attracts so many casuals, and a good World Cup run can capture the nation. Look at the scenes in France and Croatia alone yesterday. So in terms of 'eyes on', it's without doubt the biggest stage of all. The fact it's every 4 years as well, when club competitions are annual, makes it even more of an occasion to perform in, because you won't get many chances at it. Hence why it matters so much for a player to perform well in it. It carries far more pressure and reward than any other footballing competition.

What Ralphy said.

 

[Steve0]

what a weird post.

The only sensible response I can think of is to ask you to share your top 10, Steve.






What Ralphy said.

But he's won the golden ball...... and taken a very average Argentina side to the World Cup Final.... and was the key element for the team that gave France its hardest game.

 

[dholliday]

But he's won the golden ball...... and taken a very average Argentina side to the World Cup Final.... and was the key element for the team that gave France its hardest game.

so what? that makes him better than Beckenbauer or Zidane in the all-time rankings? Not a chance in my book. Plus most observers agree that Messi's Golden Ball award was undeserved, France's hardest game was Belgium and Messi being the "key element" when he didn't even score is a bit OTT fanboy.

Vs Argie the French were comfortably 4-2 up, the 3rd Argie goal came just before the final whistle so was only a very late consolation. Against Belg France had to be totally in-focus the entire match, knowing one slip would bring them right back in it.

Ask Didier himself what was the most difficult match this tournament...he'd say Belgium too.

Anyway, let's not fuss about that, let's see your book, Steve. Who's your all-time top 10?

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I don't doubt the club vs country logic, in terms of potential quality of side.

But it depends on how you look at biggest stage though. The Champions League final has yet to reach 500 million viewers Globally, whereas the World Cup final has anything from 1-3 billion viewers, depending on where you read it.

The World Cup gets far more viewers than anything else, as it attracts so many casuals, and a good World Cup run can capture the nation. Look at the scenes in France and Croatia alone yesterday. So in terms of 'eyes on', it's without doubt the biggest stage of all. The fact it's every 4 years as well, when club competitions are annual, makes it even more of an occasion to perform in, because you won't get many chances at it. Hence why it matters so much for a player to perform well in it. It carries far more pressure and reward than any other footballing competition.

TV numbers are irrelevant though aren't they? We're saying here that a cup competition consisting of six games every four years is more important than the ~240 club games played during that same period. The quality of opposition is easily comparable (the average La Liga side is better than the smaller nations at the WC, and the top La Liga/CL sides are better than the leading nations), so how can you possibly say a player should be judged over 6 games versus 240?

What next, the Beatles aren't the best in the world because they haven't won Pop Idol?

 

[dholliday]

TV numbers are irrelevant though aren't they? We're saying here that a cup competition consisting of six games every four years is more important than the ~240 club games played during that same period. The quality of opposition is easily comparable (the average La Liga side is better than the smaller nations at the WC, and the top La Liga/CL sides are better than the leading nations), so how can you possibly say a player should be judged over 6 games versus 240?

What next, the Beatles aren't the best in the world because they haven't won Pop Idol?

It's about prestige. Ask any player what is the most important football tournament. He'd say World Cup. Ask most fans, he'd say World Cup.

The World Cup means the most to people: players & fans alike. If you as a GOAT-candidate can't shine in one despite playing for a major nation and having 4 goes at it, then you've failed to become the GOAT.

 

[Steve0]

so what? that makes him better than Beckenbauer or Zidane in the all-time rankings? Not a chance in my book. Plus most observers agree that Messi's Golden Ball award was undeserved, France's hardest game was Belgium and Messi being the "key element" when he didn't even score is a bit OTT fanboy.

Vs Argie the French were comfortably 4-2 up, the 3rd Argie goal came just before the final whistle so was only a very late consolation. Against Belg France had to be totally in-focus the entire match, knowing one slip would bring them right back in it.

Ask Didier himself what was the most difficult match this tournament...he'd say Belgium too.

Anyway, let's not fuss about that, let's see your book, Steve. Who's your all-time top 10?

It refutes a key point of your decision to rank him so lowly. Just saying.

How much of Beckenbaeur have you seen btw? I'm sure it's loads and not just some desperate hipster choice.

Argentina will the only team to lead France in the entire tournament and gave their defence the most to do (mainly down to Messi).

 

[Little Ralphy]

TV numbers are irrelevant though aren't they? We're saying here that a cup competition consisting of six games every four years is more important than the ~240 club games played during that same period. The quality of opposition is easily comparable (the average La Liga side is better than the smaller nations at the WC, and the top La Liga/CL sides are better than the leading nations), so how can you possibly say a player should be judged over 6 games versus 240?

What next, the Beatles aren't the best in the world because they haven't won Pop Idol?

But isn't sport all about performing when it really matters? Are you really saying all of those 240 club games are as important as the 6 games at the World Cup? That's how the best players are remembered for performing when it really matters, like in Cup Finals etc. It's like the Olympics with athletes.

A World Cup winner's medal is the most sought after honour in World football.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

It's about prestige. Ask any player what is the most important football tournament. He'd say World Cup. Ask most fans, he'd say World Cup.

The World Cup means the most to people: players & fans alike. If you as a GOAT-candidate can't shine in one despite playing for a major nation and having 4 goes at it, then you've failed to become the GOAT.

Ok, so Argentina's first goal is referred to VAR, which shows Maradona handled it into the England net, the game goes to extra time and England win with a Peter Reid penalty. Maradona doesn't win the world cup and then isn't the best of all time? Reckon you'd say that's pretty daft. It's like people saying Ronaldo is great because Portugal won a final he missed most of through injury, but because they won he's amazing.

 

[Papa Shango]

It refutes a key point of your decision to rank him so lowly. Just saying.

How much of Beckenbaeur have you seen btw? I'm sure it's loads and not just some desperate hipster choice.

Argentina will the only team to lead France in the entire tournament and gave their defence the most to do (mainly down to Messi).

Well that totally changes it doesn't it? It's not judging the best of all time it's judging the best you have seen which is a totally different thing.

 

[Little Ralphy]

Ok, so Argentina's first goal is referred to VAR, which shows Maradona handled it into the England net, the game goes to extra time and England win with a Peter Reid penalty. Maradona doesn't win the world cup and then isn't the best of all time?

None of that happened though.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

But isn't sport all about performing when it really matters? Are you really saying all of those 240 club games are as important as the 6 games at the World Cup? That's how the best players are remembered for performing when it really matters, like in Cup Finals etc. It's like the Olympics with athletes.

A World Cup winner's medal is the most sought after honour in World football.

I don't dispute that it is the most sought after honour, I'm disputing that performances in a world cup are enough to judge a player throughout their career. Maldini never won a world cup, but which nutter would argue that he wasn't the best left back ever?