Messi "best player of all time"

[Yid4life]

Salah. End Thread.

 

[The binman chronicles]

How can those two even be compared? It's like saying Pele was rubbish in goal.

Believe it or not Pele was actually a decent keeper. To the point he would go in goal if there was an injury/sending off.

 

[The binman chronicles]

Salah. End Thread.

You sir are no longer welcome in this thread!

 

[StateSideToffee]

WOOL[/QUOTE

Sorry, I’m not familiar with your meaning here. I found this online; is this like derogatory? I mean, I am from the states but I’m not really hiding that.

 

[TraffordBlue]

Don't understand the argument that he hasn't done it in the PL. He has dominated every English side he has played against including scoring in two CL finals against United.

Best player of 21st century, anyone with eyes can tell he is better than Ronaldo.

Those who prefer Ronaldo lazily use it in their argument because it's a sly way of them trying to get the upper hand as it's undeniable that Messi hasn't 'done it in England'. What they fail to realise is how poor an argument it is when you consider the following:

Messi has scored 20 goals in his last 18 appearances against English sides in the CL. These are England's best teams and he absolutely humiliates them time and time again. As you said, he has scored in 2 Finals against Man United, and he put 4 past Arsenal in one game with 9 goals in 6 in that fixture, and he has 6 in 6 against Man City.

On that note, how many times do we hear that a player is a 'flat track bully' in England? Players like Lukaku have been dismissed for that reason and there is an element of truth in it as he often goes missing against the top sides. Yet Messi takes the best English teams apart on Spanish soil and in England time and time again and we're supposed to believe that he couldn't do it against the likes of Bournemouth and Brighton lol.

The 'English' argument also falls down when you consider the league he is playing in is vastly superior based on the evidence of appearances in CL finals recently. In the past 10 Finals, 9 out of the 20 possible teams have been Spanish. For English sides: 4 from 20 and have lost 3 finals in 4 (all to Spanish sides).

 

[StateSideToffee]

Attacking contributions aren't 'overvalued', they're valued proportionately higher because they're more difficult.

Look at how the CL final changed when Salah went off, and Real suddenly found themselves up against a team full of quite good workmanlike players, rather than some good workmanlike players and a matchwinner. Look at the difference in Everton's performances last season compared to the season before - the defensive and midfield players were the same, but they were no longer being elevated by the attacking skills of Barkley and Lukaku.

All positions on a pitch are important, but you can defend very well without having particularly good defenders, by building an effective system and coaching players to do the right things. Moyes did that with us, Dyche is doing it with Burnley. You can't do that with attack though, there needs to be real talent there. That's why sides like Peru, Iran and Morocco have failed at this tournament - across the pitch they've (often more than) matched their opponents, but they haven't been able to put the ball in the net when it matters. That's why all the most expensive players in the world are attackers. The whole of the footballing world hasn't been labouring under a misconception for eternity only for one bloke to look at it from the outside and decide that actually Tony Hibbert was worth £50m if only people knew what they were looking for.

I see your point and it’s a completely valid perspective. The strongest point to consider for me was the values placed on players. So I considered which player would sell for the most between Neymar or De Gea, and asked myself, Is value a clear indicator of which player has the greatest influence on the teams success?

Because to me that is the most important factor to determining which player is the best.

If we can determine that value is a clear indicator of which player has the greatest influence; let’s ask ourselves:

If both players were in their prime at the same time; which player would sell for the most Ronaldo or Messi?

 

[Tony1985]

You've really GOT to explain what this means?

Because Messi has easily the better first touch....unless this counts as 'ball at his feet'.
Messi is definitely better at passing...unless this counts as 'ball at his feet'.
Messi comfortably has the better vision....unless this counts as 'ball at his feet'.
Messi has a better free-kick conversion rate...unless this counts as 'ball at his feet'.

I don't know what you're trying to say. Ronaldo has better aerial ability (though Messi has scored a header in a CL final) and probably has a harder shot....that's literally the only areas he bests Messi. IMHO.

Tbh mate I can’t be arsed going into detail it’s just personal preference. Be arsed trawling through stats like “Ronaldo scored a header from 43 yards 10 years ago, Messi didn’t”. There’s no denying Messi is quality but my opinion is Ronaldo is the better player and like I said for me it’s not even close.

 

[Steve0]

Tbh mate I can’t be arsed going into detail it’s just personal preference. Be arsed trawling through stats like “Ronaldo scored a header from 43 yards 10 years ago, Messi didn’t”. There’s no denying Messi is quality but my opinion is Ronaldo is the better player and like I said for me it’s not even close.

Well i wasn't asking for stats but fair enough.

 

[Lanolin]

I see your point and it’s a completely valid perspective. The strongest point to consider for me was the values placed on players. So I considered which player would sell for the most between Neymar or De Gea, and asked myself, Is value a clear indicator of which player has the greatest influence on the teams success?

Because to me that is the most important factor to determining which player is the best.

If we can determine that value is a clear indicator of which player has the greatest influence; let’s ask ourselves:

If both players were in their prime at the same time; which player would sell for the most Ronaldo or Messi?

We’ll never know, but I’d wager on a dead heat.

For me, if I had to ask one of them to play in a game my life depended on, I’d pick Ronaldo. If I had to pay to watch one of them, it would be Messi every time. They’re both fantastic, I just don’t see how anyone could dismiss messi’s case the way so many have in here.

 

[bicycleheader]

I don’t think it can be argued as a playmaker with the ball at his feet Messi is Better. If we are talking all round player, Ronaldo and it’s not even close.

Personal preference is fine, but your second statement above is the opposite of the reality. They are both amazing attackers and score bucketloads of goals. But only one is also possibly the best playmaker of all time. If that doesn't make them a better all round player I don't know what does, The statement doesn't make sense. I think it's personal preference informing opinion rather than an actual observation of what both of them do week in week out.

 

[bicycleheader]

I see your point and it’s a completely valid perspective. The strongest point to consider for me was the values placed on players. So I considered which player would sell for the most between Neymar or De Gea, and asked myself, Is value a clear indicator of which player has the greatest influence on the teams success?

Because to me that is the most important factor to determining which player is the best.

If we can determine that value is a clear indicator of which player has the greatest influence; let’s ask ourselves:

If both players were in their prime at the same time; which player would sell for the most Ronaldo or Messi?

I'd suggest you watch the game and decide what players are good or not.

Judging it by possible value makes no sense at all.

Yannick Bolasie cost 452 Million Pounds Sterling and is absolute dirt

 

[FC sexy xxx]

It was a joke mate

 

[Tony1985]

@bicycleheader @Steve0 Kinell lads have you got Messi posters on your wall?? It’s a debate about a couple of players are you genuinely that arsed about it??

 

[bicycleheader]

@bicycleheader @Steve0 Kinell lads have you got Messi posters on your wall?? It’s a debate about a couple of players are you genuinely that arsed about it??

It's a football chat. I kinda like talking about football. Do you expect to just post in a forum and nobody ever replies? Wouldn't work very well.

 

[Tony1985]

It's a football chat. I kinda like talking about football. Do you expect to just post in a forum and nobody ever replies? Wouldn't work very well.

Yeah I get that mate but you seem so entrenched in the Messi love in that your trying to change people’s opinions.

For me ronaldo has more pace, more agility, is better in the air, better striker of the ball, there are traits to ronaldo that Messi don’t have but ronaldo does and what swings it for me he is by far the better show man. Football is about entertainment and ronaldo provides far more entertainment than Messi does. I’m not basing this opinion on just this World Cup but let’s take this cup as a example. Ronaldo has dragged a mediocre Portugal side through and done it in style, apart from about half an hour Messi has stunk the place out and that Argentina side is decent imh.

One last point for me personally he’s done it in the premier league on a regular basis. I would like to see how Messi would get on with Ryan shawcross kicking 10 bells out of him for 90.