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Manchester United

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bluerobert said:
Why is it the press can openly name him but for other people they can’t? I thought they could only be named once they were being charged with something or am I massively wrong on that?
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Trial by media,always happens in this country, same has happened with Prince Andrew. Greenwood has already been removed from the fifa 2022 squads,so they have him guilty already while Andrew has already been stripped of titles and horseraces now been renamed.
 

luuk_deventer said:
I worry the way that this has all happened on social media may save him. Police generally do not release people on bail without charging them when there is strong evidence.

This suggests there is not sufficient evidence to charge him. Investigations will continue, I guess, but there could be a future where this does not result in a prosecution.
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He`s been released, because, as it stands, the evidence hasn`t met the " threshold " at which the CPS would charge - IE : " is there a realistic chance of a successful prosecution with the evidence as it stands ".

The social media photos and voice recording will be evidence, but if he has said " no comment" ( which is what I`d advise him to do, if I was his brief ", you have to provide evidence, that he he caused the injuries, that it was his voice on the recordings and that a sexual assault took place.

To prove her injuries, you`d need one or more from the following - a witness, similar fact ( he`s done it before ) CCTV, injuries to his own hands etc.

The recording would have to be sent off to a voice expert ( takes time )

She`d be medically examined and if that didn`t show any sign of " forced penetartion ) you`re struggling.

Then there`s evidence from, the first person she told, forensic evidence from the likes of her clothes, underwear, bedding etc.

He`ll have to provide forensic evidence, in the form of swabs, clippings, etc. for comparison.

All the forensic stuff then has to be examined ( can take a while, unless it`s fast tracked, which normally only happens there`s a child / vulnerable person involved or something like a serial rapist )

So, as you can see, without an admission, there`s still quite a bit of work to do, before it even gets to the stage where he could be charged. ( which is quite normal )

I`m not condoning him by the way.
 
COYBL25 said:
He`s been released, because, as it stands, the evidence hasn`t met the " threshold " at which the CPS would charge - IE : " is there a realistic chance of a successful prosecution with the evidence as it stands ".

The social media photos and voice recording will be evidence, but if he has said " no comment" ( which is what I`d advise him to do, if I was his brief ", you have to provide evidence, that he he caused the injuries, that it was his voice on the recordings and that a sexual assault took place.

To prove her injuries, you`d need one or more from the following - a witness, similar fact ( he`s done it before ) CCTV, injuries to his own hands etc.

The recording would have to be sent off to a voice expert ( takes time )

She`d be medically examined and if that didn`t show any sign of " forced penetartion ) you`re struggling.

Then there`s evidence from, the first person she told, forensic evidence from the likes of her clothes, underwear, bedding etc.

He`ll have to provide forensic evidence, in the form of swabs, clippings, etc. for comparison.

All the forensic stuff then has to be examined ( can take a while, unless it`s fast tracked, which normally only happens there`s a child / vulnerable person involved or something like a serial rapist )

So, as you can see, without an admission, there`s still quite a bit of work to do, before it even gets to the stage where he could be charged. ( which is quite normal )

I`m not condoning him by the way.
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Yes, this was my thoughts too.

If the victim has refused to testify, which is another thought, it makes this process even harder for the police.

I think he will have stayed silent as there is no certain proof that he caused the bruises, or that it was his voice on the tape.

Even if they can prove it was his voice on the tape, without her testimony it is still difficult.
 
luuk_deventer said:
Yes, this was my thoughts too.

If the victim has refused to testify, which is another thought, it makes this process even harder for the police.

I think he will have stayed silent as there is no certain proof that he caused the bruises, or that it was his voice on the tape.

Even if they can prove it was his voice on the tape, without her testimony it is still difficult.
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I`d say, that he`s been bailed, to give the police time to gather more / all of the evidence, nothing more sinister than that really.
 
luuk_deventer said:
Yes, this was my thoughts too.

If the victim has refused to testify, which is another thought, it makes this process even harder for the police.

I think he will have stayed silent as there is no certain proof that he caused the bruises, or that it was his voice on the tape.

Even if they can prove it was his voice on the tape, without her testimony it is still difficult.
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I was speculating on the case of the midfielder who can't be named on here with my daughter and the lack of charges or time taken to make them and thought in that instance this may be because the victim is refusing to press charges. Was on the back of a conversation about other teams still playing players with potential charges hanging over them.
 

COYBL25 said:
He`s been released, because, as it stands, the evidence hasn`t met the " threshold " at which the CPS would charge - IE : " is there a realistic chance of a successful prosecution with the evidence as it stands ".

The social media photos and voice recording will be evidence, but if he has said " no comment" ( which is what I`d advise him to do, if I was his brief ", you have to provide evidence, that he he caused the injuries, that it was his voice on the recordings and that a sexual assault took place.

To prove her injuries, you`d need one or more from the following - a witness, similar fact ( he`s done it before ) CCTV, injuries to his own hands etc.

The recording would have to be sent off to a voice expert ( takes time )

She`d be medically examined and if that didn`t show any sign of " forced penetartion ) you`re struggling.

Then there`s evidence from, the first person she told, forensic evidence from the likes of her clothes, underwear, bedding etc.

He`ll have to provide forensic evidence, in the form of swabs, clippings, etc. for comparison.

All the forensic stuff then has to be examined ( can take a while, unless it`s fast tracked, which normally only happens there`s a child / vulnerable person involved or something like a serial rapist )

So, as you can see, without an admission, there`s still quite a bit of work to do, before it even gets to the stage where he could be charged. ( which is quite normal )

I`m not condoning him by the way.
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So just on this mate, your first paragraph Mrs Bluerob has a a friend who’s brother is being accused of rape. I said the same thing to my Mrs, they can’t be bringing charges against him if they don’t think there’s a case. I asked my mate who’s a solicitor about it and he said that used to be the case but in 2015 the CPS came under scrutiny for the amount of cases that don’t get brought to trial and now it’s gone the other way in that they take everything to trial as they were seen as not doing enough previously.

I’m sure you’d know far more about it then me pal but I’m the case of Mrs Bluerobs friends brother they have no evidence. His side of it is he stayed over in her hotel room as he couldn’t get home, he’s saying nothing at all happened between them but he did kiss her earlier in the evening. Apparently there’s no signs of intercourse, no markings or anything. It’s just her word against his and that’s going to trial.

Now I’m not sure if he’s completely blagging it to save face with his family which is a bit daft if it’s all going to come out in the trail. His mum and dad are having to put the house up sale to cover the £50,000 fees the barrister has quoted them. That’s why I’d gone to my mate to ask his opinion
 

COYBL25 said:
He`s been released, because, as it stands, the evidence hasn`t met the " threshold " at which the CPS would charge - IE : " is there a realistic chance of a successful prosecution with the evidence as it stands ".

The social media photos and voice recording will be evidence, but if he has said " no comment" ( which is what I`d advise him to do, if I was his brief ", you have to provide evidence, that he he caused the injuries, that it was his voice on the recordings and that a sexual assault took place.

To prove her injuries, you`d need one or more from the following - a witness, similar fact ( he`s done it before ) CCTV, injuries to his own hands etc.

The recording would have to be sent off to a voice expert ( takes time )

She`d be medically examined and if that didn`t show any sign of " forced penetartion ) you`re struggling.

Then there`s evidence from, the first person she told, forensic evidence from the likes of her clothes, underwear, bedding etc.

He`ll have to provide forensic evidence, in the form of swabs, clippings, etc. for comparison.

All the forensic stuff then has to be examined ( can take a while, unless it`s fast tracked, which normally only happens there`s a child / vulnerable person involved or something like a serial rapist )

So, as you can see, without an admission, there`s still quite a bit of work to do, before it even gets to the stage where he could be charged. ( which is quite normal )

I`m not condoning him by the way.
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I was speaking to a friend and she was quite taken aback when I said 'if he was convicted' and was adamant that it would be 'when'.

While I've read on here some pretty strong anti-police views regarding such offences, the misunderstanding or misconception is based on burden of proof.

A jury has to 'be satisfied beyond reasonable doubt' to convict and sadly, albeit rightly or wrongly, this can be really difficult without the proof you mention.

Again, not talking about a specific case or cases, an audio recording of someone saying 'open your legs' and other images would alone struggle to meet it.

Like you said, I'm not condoning him (far bloody from it) nor trying to be negative, but I suspect a case like this will require time to build a case.

This is often why conviction rates are so low and people rightly feel aggrieved about the process, the police and CPS; yet, it comes down to the same phrase.

'Beyond reasonable doubt'. Unless there's specific changes to that and the process, it'll sadly always be a difficult one to convict.
 
PhilM said:
I was speaking to a friend and she was quite taken aback when I said 'if he was convicted' and was adamant that it would be 'when'.

While I've read on here some pretty strong anti-police views regarding such offences, the misunderstanding or misconception is based on burden of proof.

A jury has to 'be satisfied beyond reasonable doubt' to convict and sadly, albeit rightly or wrongly, this can be really difficult without the proof you mention.

Again, not talking about a specific case or cases, an audio recording of someone saying 'open your legs' and other images would alone struggle to meet it.

Like you said, I'm not condoning him (far bloody from it) nor trying to be negative, but I suspect a case like this will require time to build a case.

This is often why conviction rates are so low and people rightly feel aggrieved about the process, the police and CPS; yet, it comes down to the same phrase.

'Beyond reasonable doubt'. Unless there's specific changes to that and the process, it'll sadly always be a difficult one to convict.
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Tis true.

Further evidence may come out, but his defence lawyers have several avenues they could go down, all of which could compromise "beyond reasonable doubt".


N
 

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