Lightweights in the team?

kenada_blue · October 5, 2008

Was thinking about it before and I was wondering what others felt about the subject.

Looking at the midfield there's not a ball winner in them:

Osman, Arteta, Pienaar, Fellani.

The midfield looks like its got the same problems as Spurs last and this season in that we've got a bunch of technically gifted players, but no one to actually get a tackle in and win a ball, win that 50-50 challange.

Those players can hussle well and stick a foot, can hold the ball up too. But to actually tackle with an attack is coming straight at them is something alien to them.

I know everyone will bring Lee Carsley up but its something Moyes hasnt solved yet. I'm not saying getting rid of Carsley was a bad idea, the feller was knocking over 30 years old so fresh legs needed to be brought in.

The two players he's brought in Fellani and Castilio were supposidly to fill that missing DM role. But for weeks he's been playing Fellani more forward, more attacking central midfielder pushing forward. A DM wouldnt be in the positions Fellani has found himself in during the past few games -- scored today, had a shot cleared off the line in the box against the [Poor language removed].

Then there's the mystery of Castilio. The feller looks like Makelele, has legs the size of iron gurders, can win a ball but its too quick when he gets mugged off because his positioning is [Poor language removed].

So the qustion is -- minus the work rate looking off (seeming like we've earned the right to be in the top 6 by pure skill) -- if Castilio or Fellani are not the ones to win the ball, who the [Poor language removed] is?

ToxtethBlue · October 5, 2008

We do need a ball winner in the team. Osman and Fellaini shouldn't be playing alongside each other, it didn't work. It did when we where on top but when we lost the ball it was hell getting it back.

It has to be one of Neville or Castillo, I'd give Castillo a run.

Toffe3m4n · October 5, 2008

"Lightweight" is the wrong word to use imo. Sure, the likes of Ossie and Stevie P in particular dont have a lot about them physically, but thats no excuse for not being able to go and win a 50/50 ball - something that we simply dont do atm.

kenada_blue · October 5, 2008

So what's Moyes doing not playing him? The list of midfielders (when fit and able) --

Arteta
Cahill
Osman
Pienaar
Fellaini
Castillo
Rodwell
Maybe Neville.

The ones in bold are attacking players. Fellaini seems a holding box to box midfielder and not a defensive player. So that leaves the rest in itallics.

So why arent we [Poor language removed] trying them out?

Look at Hull City. They look a bit like us maybe 2-3 seasons back -- solid team, great work ethic, a few technical playmakers, majority hard working ball winners. We look a shadow of last seasons team.

Brownie · October 6, 2008

ToxtethBlue said:
Osman and Fellaini shouldn't be playing alongside each other, it didn't work. It did when we where on top but when we lost the ball it was hell getting it back.

It worked for 44 minutes. Pienaar and Ossie are quite a good little tag team when they track back. If you're on top most of the time, you don't need an out and out ball winner. Basically 4-4-2 at home, shouldn't need one. Away, I agree, get Segundo in there to crack some skulls.

ToxtethBlue · October 6, 2008

Brownie said:
It worked for 44 minutes. Pienaar and Ossie are quite a good little tag team when they track back. If you're on top most of the time, you don't need an out and out ball winner. Basically 4-4-2 at home, shouldn't need one. Away, I agree, get Segundo in there to crack some skulls.

I agree but we don't retain possession well enough. Osman and Fellaini do but the players behind them still concede possession (Hibbert/Jags/Lescott).

I think Newcastle got the better of us today because they played 4-5-1 aswell, that definatly gave them an advantage.

TX Bill · October 6, 2008

ToxtethBlue said:
We do need a ball winner in the team. Osman and Fellaini shouldn't be playing alongside each other, it didn't work. It did when we where on top but when we lost the ball it was hell getting it back.

It has to be one of Neville or Castillo, I'd give Castillo a run.

Bingo bango !!!

Put Fellaini next to Castillo in the middle of the park with Arteta and Pienaar out wide.

TyphooToffee · October 6, 2008

I think the club could save a lot of money by getting rid of David Moyes and using the tactics described here. Why do we need a manager when there is such a fount of knowledge on this very website?

Come on lads, get a grip. OK, I'll admit I had to give the Sky TV remote to my wife for fear of throwing it at the set should Newcastle get a winner but surely all we should be talking about getting shot of Hibbert, getting a decent right back and explaining that a defender has to defend and not just put his arm up for offside when the opposing player shoots past him!

Oh well, not to worry, it's only Arsenal next

evertonianstu · October 6, 2008

Lightweight may indeed be right. Does seem sometimes that most of the midfield is bullied out the game.

Bundy · October 6, 2008

I weight 74kg. Can I play?

kenada_blue · October 6, 2008

Bundy said:
I weight 74kg. Can I play?

No!

Anyway, I think Moyes will buy some Stephen Hunt-like cheapish but hard working grafter who kicks people in the Januray window. He did mention that he's going back to getting those cheeky buys again.

I'd welcome that myself. Everytime needs a workhorse who gets stuck in -- the top teams all have one or two.

Sim · October 6, 2008

Who do you drop from our current midfield though to put in that DM:

Arteta - Obviously not, our main creative player
Pienaar - At newcastle when he was fit for the first 45 min, we finally started to play some nice football, and I think it was his link up play that helped that.
Fellaini - You cant drop our record signing who has finally started to show a bit of class

That leaves Osman or Cahill, thats a tough call.

kenada_blue · October 6, 2008

That's why its Moyes to call.

There's nothing wrong with not playing you record signing if you're not winning games. To be fair I think it's a toss up between Cahill, Fellani and Osman.

I think Osman and Fellaini do the same job, Fellaini is can ride a tackle and hold the ball better, but Osman is technically more gifted with the ball at his feet -- then there's the height difference.

Cahill wont sit it out. He's a constant threat going forward.

little curly alan ball · October 6, 2008

yeh, its nt great at d min. screech luks a diff player to d 1 who scared d [Poor language removed]. plus, wats appd to gosling? d kid lookd ok t me. a long hard season... lcab.

Sim · October 6, 2008

kenada_blue said:
That's why its Moyes to call.

There's nothing wrong with not playing you record signing if you're not winning games. To be fair I think it's a toss up between Cahill, Fellani and Osman.

I think Osman and Fellaini do the same job, Fellaini is can ride a tackle and hold the ball better, but Osman is technically more gifted with the ball at his feet -- then there's the height difference.

Cahill wont sit it out. He's a constant threat going forward.

I'm not suggesting playing Fellaini just because of his price, but he proved yesterday he's finding his form and I think was our best midfielder out there. He's gonna be a class player when he gets his position sorted.

Cahill has been pretty poor so far from what we've seen of him this year. I know he gets the goals, but his ability isnt as good as the others.

I say, if its a 451 drop osman, if its a 442 drop Cahill.