keioc and sos working together ?

[Tom Hughes]

*face palm*

Tom, theres a fair few more than a few hundred obstructed views at Goodison Park. 4,000 of the 40,000 are actually discounted because of being an "obstructed view" of the goal, with 12,000 having an obstructed view of the pitch.

I was talking about the lower Bullens specifically, because that was the view that you said was "typical"..... when in fact they are by far the worst at the rear of that stand..... with the point being that simple re-roofing addresses the vast majority of the rest. Resolving the stated "issue"! I'd hate you to think I hadn't managed to go in the lower Bullens or lower Gwladys at some point in the last 40+ yrs of my attending........

 

[davek]

Err, have I read that wrong? You're not suggesting that the exclusivity deal was made up to get the council off the hook in the short term are you? You're just suggesting they took advantage of the fact Everton had entered into one so they could throw their arms in the air while looking as if they wanted to help?

If so, you could be right. They have of course said they'll work with the club to try and work something out, but we all know how much talk costs. Everton have said a lot of things. KEIOC/GFE/A.N. Other bunch of hairy arsed Evertonians have said lots of things. Few of them have produced much actual progress at all...which ends up with us all getting frustrated and sniping at each other via keyboards in a soft blue glow from our monitors, all of us internet warriors fighting the good fight for our club and neglecting necessary work (quickly checks the boss isn't looking).

Everton Football Club Company Limited is a private business residing and trading in Liverpool. It's up to the council to help local businesses as this helps the local economy and hence the voters they are supposed to be acting on behalf of.

On the other hand, they shouldn't be identifying any one particular local business for extra help. It's really up to Everton to go to them and say "Here's what we want to do. We need your help in this way. Can you provide it?" What they ask for should be reasonable and appropriate and the request should be formal so if they get knocked back, they can publicise how they've been treated properly. From what I've seen and read in the past, most of what's gone on between them has been arse-covering on both sides - "Don't blame us, blame them"...and most of us have lapped it up and started throwing stones of our own.

And, in turn, you're not suggesting that the exclusivity deal (sorry, 'cooperation agreement') wasn't very real and Tesco wasn't very serious about it are you? To imply that LCC were able during this period to do anything other than provide Plan B's in the event of DK going west is nonsensical. There was a complete lockout of any alternatives being taken up - hence the 'white rabbit being pulled out of a hat' comment from Wyness over the Loop.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

Tom, I think it's time for me to call a truce and just say "I disagree"

There are a lot of obstructed views at Goodison, I think I read the most for any Premiership ground. 12,000 from 40,000 is a big ask, reducing ticket prices is just one step, we need to go further than that. That isn't a reason to say we need to move - far from it. I'd love us to remain at Goodison, but head above heart - it's feasible short term with a few adjustments, but long term is another matter altogether.

I keep getting dragged in to this stadium lark as I can't bite my tongue, but as I keep saying - lets wait and see what Elstones news is.

An earlier member called it spot on, it's all complete conjecture right now. It's all been discussed before, lets wait on Elstone for the new chapter.

 

[Duckling]

100% Agree Duck

Fantastic, now I can pounce .

Since you're "site owner" here, I presume you have some internet skills of some type, or at least access to them?

How about setting up a petition, something like:

"As Evertonians, we call on the Board and Management of Everton Football Club to lay out what they consider the specific pre-requisite criteria are for either a stadium re-development or a potential new home for the club. Although we recognise cost will be a deciding factor, the club should not publicise the strength or weakness of their position in this regard. Instead they should lay down criteria for:

• Initial Capacity
• Future Growth Potential
• Number & Capacity of Executive Boxes
• Number & Capacity of Corporate Lounges
• Transport Links & Infrastructure

Consideration should also be given to the potential for revenue generating activities and events on non-match days.
By publicly laying down these criteria, we believe Everton will strengthen their position in relation to interested public bodies and attract attention from potential development partners."

 

[Reidy's Bottle Of Grecian]

I keep getting dragged in to this stadium lark as I can't bite my tongue,

here fishy fishy, here fishy fishy. attaches bite alarm, opens can and puts feet up.

 

[best little spaniard]

Ok, we're all pretty passionate about this stadium thing.

I'll ride with GOT when he said let's see what Elstone says next, seeing as I have no inside knowledge, . Best thing to do I think. If I dont like what he says, i'll probably go on a cyber rant, but till then I doubt there's any point in worrying about it.

Also, being stuck behind a post isn't the end of the world. Just adds to the entertainment by not beeing able to see what's going on behind it.

 

[Tom Hughes]

I'm not so sure. I think the exclusivity deal was rubbish from LCC. Everton have been exploring stadium options since the late 80's. A few months in to an 'Exclusivity deal' LCC spout "Well we can't help because of an exclusivity deal". What about the years before? and what about now?

It's well documented that EFC signed an exclusivity deal with Tesco/Knowsley. Both Wyness and Elstone stated this on several occasions.

 

[Dylan]

I think the point is LCC hve had plenty of opportunity BEFORE the exclusivity deal to talk to Everton....but didn't really make a real effort.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

It's well documented that EFC signed an exclusivity deal with Tesco/Knowsley. Both Wyness and Elstone stated this on several occasions.

Well, well. Who's the little nitpicker? I've called a truce, but you like this stadium lark don't you? Every single one of your posts with reference to it.

Anyway, I didn't say it didn't exist, I'm saying it was a lacklustre excuse from LCC.

LCC continuously stated they would assist Everton find a site, but were unable to do so because of an exclusivity deal. In the timeline of events spanning over ten years, a few months of exclusivity is fairly insignificant.

LCC continuously stated confidence of working with Everton to provide a viable location and deliver a world class stadium. Funny how it's all gone quiet from LCC, isn't it? The exclusivity deal is over now mate, and it wasn't in existence in the ten years preceeding it.

It does make you wonder, if LCC were so confident, why did LCC then exclude any possibility of a new Everton ground in their World Cup bid? I mean, they did so with Liverpool, didn't they? "Anfield or Liverpools new stadium", they submitted. But us? No don't be silly. Odd really, considering they were singing promises all over the show of delivering us a stadium just before it.

LCC have excluded any possibility. If we built a San Siro in Stanley Park or redeveloped Goodison to resemble the Nou Camp, it can't feature in the World Cup. LCC have already excluded it. Instead its Anfield, or Liverpools new stadium. Theres confidence for you.

But, but, but... exclusivity deal. Behave.

Lord Mawhinney announced the cities that would be hosting possible World Cup matches yesterday afternoon, and did include Liverpool in his list of successful applicants. However only Liverpool FC would host games in 2018 or 2022, leaving Everton out in the cold.

Elstone: “What is truly disappointing is that we at Everton have been ruled out of contention despite constantly re-iterating our belief that we will have a new stadium built, open and fully-functioning many years before a World Cup in either 2018 or 2022.

“We have fully supported the City of Liverpool's bid for host-city status and, yes, we do feel aggrieved that it was not a case of Anfield, a new Liverpool stadium OR a new Everton stadium.

 

[davek]

LCC continuously stated they would assist Everton find a site, but were unable to do so because of an exclusivity deal. In the timeline of events spanning over ten years, a few months of exclusivity is fairly insignificant.

LCC continuously stated confidence of working with Everton to provide a viable location and deliver a world class stadium. Funny how it's all gone quiet from LCC, isn't it? The exclusivity deal is over now mate, and it wasn't in existence in the ten years preceeding it.

*coughs* Kings Dock *splutters*

It does make you wonder, if LCC were so confident, why did LCC then exclude any possibility of a new Everton ground in their World Cup bid? I mean, they did so with Liverpool, didn't they? "Anfield or Liverpools new stadium", they submitted. But us? No don't be silly. Odd really, considering they were singing promises all over the show of delivering us a stadium just before it.
.

Everton, as far as I'm aware, didn't put themselves forward for the bid.

 

[Dylan]

Regarding Kings Dock.....weren't we required to put up 30 million or so which we just did not have? That is a situation where the council could hav e helped us out by making arangements to assist us, rather than kicking us to the kerb.

 

[Duckling]

Well, well. Who's the little nitpicker? I've called a truce, but you like this stadium lark don't you? Every single one of your posts with reference to it.

Anyway, I didn't say it didn't exist, I'm saying it was a lacklustre excuse from LCC.

LCC continuously stated they would assist Everton find a site, but were unable to do so because of an exclusivity deal. In the timeline of events spanning over ten years, a few months of exclusivity is fairly insignificant.

LCC continuously stated confidence of working with Everton to provide a viable location and deliver a world class stadium. Funny how it's all gone quiet from LCC, isn't it? The exclusivity deal is over now mate, and it wasn't in existence in the ten years preceeding it.

It does make you wonder, if LCC were so confident, why did LCC then exclude any possibility of a new Everton ground in their World Cup bid? I mean, they did so with Liverpool, didn't they? "Anfield or Liverpools new stadium", they submitted. But us? No don't be silly. Odd really, considering they were singing promises all over the show of delivering us a stadium just before it.

LCC have excluded any possibility. If we built a San Siro in Stanley Park or redeveloped Goodison to resemble the Nou Camp, it can't feature in the World Cup. LCC have already excluded it. Instead its Anfield, or Liverpools new stadium. Theres confidence for you.

But, but, but... exclusivity deal. Behave.

GOT: Don't think that's 100% accurate on either point, but I know what you're saying re LCC: EFC have been let down by the council to some extent over the years. I think if Tom gave an objective assessment he'd probably agree. The difference is in the extent of "unhelpfulness" we each perceive. Apart from Kings Dock, I haven't seen any concrete evidence that EFC have gone to the council and asked for anything specific and I don't know how the blame for King's Dock failure should be apportioned among the various parties.

On the WC bid, are the host cities/stadiums now set in stone? If LFC neither build on Stanley Park nor redevelop Anfield sufficiently, they're out right?

And if we do come up with something...?

Both pretty big ifs in anybody's book, but neither completely beyond the realms of the possible either, all we need is LFC to go bankrupt and Bill Gates to forget about 3rd world diseases and plough his billions into Everton where it's really needed. Simples!

Oh, and the Everton/Tesco/Knowsley exclusivity deal lasted at least two years, not a few months, but then, as you say, in the context of our decades long search for an answer to the stadium issue, that's still small beer...mmm, beer

 

[Tom Hughes]

Well, well. Who's the little nitpicker? I've called a truce, but you like this stadium lark don't you? Every single one of your posts with reference to it.

Anyway, I didn't say it didn't exist, I'm saying it was a lacklustre excuse from LCC.

LCC continuously stated they would assist Everton find a site, but were unable to do so because of an exclusivity deal. In the timeline of events spanning over ten years, a few months of exclusivity is fairly insignificant.

LCC continuously stated confidence of working with Everton to provide a viable location and deliver a world class stadium. Funny how it's all gone quiet from LCC, isn't it? The exclusivity deal is over now mate, and it wasn't in existence in the ten years preceeding it.

It does make you wonder, if LCC were so confident, why did LCC then exclude any possibility of a new Everton ground in their World Cup bid? I mean, they did so with Liverpool, didn't they? "Anfield or Liverpools new stadium", they submitted. But us? No don't be silly. Odd really, considering they were singing promises all over the show of delivering us a stadium just before it.

LCC have excluded any possibility. If we built a San Siro in Stanley Park or redeveloped Goodison to resemble the Nou Camp, it can't feature in the World Cup. LCC have already excluded it. Instead its Anfield, or Liverpools new stadium. Theres confidence for you.

But, but, but... exclusivity deal. Behave.

I didn't realise we were at war.... so why the need for a truce?

Firstly.... having come back from the school run, I responded to the first post I came to. That may have been worded incorrectly by yourself, but it implied that you thought it was an LCC invention rather than a real agreement that was between EFC and its partners (as was noticed by 2 other posters).

As regards the whole "LCC haven't helped" thing, I believe this to be entirely disingenuous considering the fact that LCC put Kings Dock on a plate for just £30m club contribution, arranging all the enabling developments and site availability only to be severely let down.... or had you completely forgotten that little snippet! After that debacle alone, I would've thought it highly unlikely that they would want any dealings with EFC ever again....... but no, when LCC and the city planners put a dedicated team together to help present the Loop site, having convinced the owners, EFC simply back-healed it out of turn. When the clamour grew for them to meet with LCC and Bestway and consider it, it was then discarded with the famous EFC need a 75k seater.......

Since the rejection (and long before that, there are no applications for site expansion studies) it has been repeatedly stated that the city planning department is more than receptive to looking at footprint expansion, and they have also even invited the club to look at another site that they have available..... other than build the thing for the club, I'm not sure what else you'd expect a city-council to do! It's a shame that they didn't ask about footprint expansion with DK on offer, instead of entering into an exclusivity agreements that in essence killed all options in one go.

It makes me wonder if you have really been following these events. I mean........behave!

 

[GrandOldTeam]

GOT: Don't think that's 100% accurate on either point, but I know what you're saying re LCC: EFC have been let down by the council to some extent over the years. I think if Tom gave an objective assessment he'd probably agree. The difference is in the extent of "unhelpfulness" we each perceive. Apart from Kings Dock, I haven't seen any concrete evidence that EFC have gone to the council and asked for anything specific and I don't know how the blame for King's Dock failure should be apportioned among the various parties.

Everton have said many a times that they've approached LCC. Directly following the Kings Dock abandonment over seven years ago,

Kenwright: "Everton will now be working very closely with Liverpool City Council to deliver the first class stadium which Everton supporters want and deserve."

The Kings Dock was always audacious, the BBC even say so here;

The audacious plan to relocate Everton from Goodison Park to a new home has been abandoned after they failed to raise enough cash to fund their share of the £155m project.

Effectively carrot dangling, we were never going to raise this at that time;

Everton have struggled (for one reason or another) to come up with the £30M investment required to buy their 50% stake in the £150M stadium portion of this £300M project.
But the Club has persisted to the bitter end, desperate to prove to all the doubters that they could come up with the money... even if it did take them two years to do so. And in that time, the costs of the stadium are claimed to have escalated by an incredible 20% (£30M).

On the WC bid, are the host cities/stadiums now set in stone? If LFC neither build on Stanley Park nor redevelop Anfield sufficiently, they're out right?

Yes, set in stone. Anfield will be used regardless.

And if we do come up with something...?

We've been excluded by LCC. End of story. See Elstone quote provided earlier. No matter what we do, we wont be included in the World Cup in 2018/22. Shame. As Elstone said, If only LCC included the words "Or a new Everton stadium" following Anfield or a new Liverpool stadium.

 

[davek]

Regarding Kings Dock.....weren't we required to put up 30 million or so which we just did not have? That is a situation where the council could hav e helped us out by making arangements to assist us, rather than kicking us to the kerb.

The council and the quangos involved were getting major stick at the time for trying to channel Euro cash to the project. Then there was Gregg's reverse mortgage plan that would have seen the club (after a fashion) own the stadium.