Julian Assange of Wikileaks

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Artetafan said:
But the point is you're not arguing that Americans are no worse than any other country, that one's a sinch to be fair. You're arguing that you're fundamentally special and more noble then any other country because of your generosity and your bill of rights and the intentions of your founders. Not being any worse then the brits isn't enough for that.

And, for as much good as the US has done, (I think the Marshall Plan is arguably the greatest political success of the 20th century), you have to ignore a hell of a lot of blood on your hands to buy into that. You were one of the last civilised countries to ban slavery, you have a long record of both supporting dictators and toppling democracies, your occupation of the philippines was as obvious, and as damaging, an imperial conquest as any done by us brits, your policy of relying hevaily air power in land wars has killed a lot of civillians and, most glaringly, you brutally conquered the vast majority of your country from its orignal inhabitants and then refused to recognise their rights until over a century after you declared indepenence.

None of which even remotely makes you the bad guys. You are undoubtably one of the shining lights of democracy and charity even if, like a lot of the the first world, theres arguments to be made that your trade agreements screw over a lot of the developing countries.

But as a non american, from a country that forcibly got over its manifest destiny stage 50 years ago, I'm automatically leery of anyone beating the drum of how special America is and how proud you are of your history. Like all countries you've done some bad stuff and some good stuff and I think it is overly simplistic to emphasise one over the other. And holding up the founding fathers as having a vision of a nation based not on 'blood, religion, race, or monarchy' is reaching a little.

None of which is to say you can't be proud of your history, you should be, but 'the greatest idea in the history of the world'? Meh. That'll be fire, by my reckoning.
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Yeah, basically this. The USA are a shining light in some respects, and an example of "what not to do" or "how not to act" in others. I live here, and I both love and hate it, albeit generally more the former than the latter. It is a place of great minds and great bigots, but no more or less "special" for it.

I love the US' "idea", but to say it lived up to that promise is a bit of a joke, really. Even if you took the constitution and lived it to the letter.
 
It just goes to show if the US has a stiffy for you, they'll get you in the end, however they can.

They'll do anything to perpetuate the illusion of freedom, no matter the cost.
 
This has changed my entire view on WikiLeaks.

I was searching for someones name on Google as I've found a USB bracelet that belongs to them and want to return it.

And I come across this...

http://www.wikileaks.org/wiki/British_National_Party_membership_and_contacts_list,_reference

That is a comprehensive list of names, addresses, telephone numbers, email addresses and party role for the British National Party, available for anyone and everyone to see.

I'm against their policies (or lack of actually!) but still, I can't say that their personal political preferences should be broadcast for every nutcase in the universe to see surely??? What right do WikiLeaks have to broadcast that info and how is it in the public interest to do so?

All that could happen from that list being published is that people could be victimised and there's no way at all they could have independently verify that everyone on that list is a BNP member.

It's pretty much the same as throwing a random list of names on the internet and declaring them all pedophiles.

http://www.wikileaks.org/wiki/British_National_Party_membership_and_contacts_list,_2007-2008

Ridiculous.
 

Disagree with some things he and WikiLeaks have published, but there's no doubt he's a victim of an establishment led witch hunt. Don't blame him one bit for being afraid of those bogus charges.
 
Tubey said:
This has changed my entire view on WikiLeaks.

I was searching for someones name on Google as I've found a USB bracelet that belongs to them and want to return it.

And I come across this...

http://www.wikileaks.org/wiki/British_National_Party_membership_and_contacts_list,_reference

That is a comprehensive list of names, addresses, telephone numbers, email addresses and party role for the British National Party, available for anyone and everyone to see.

I'm against their policies (or lack of actually!) but still, I can't say that their personal political preferences should be broadcast for every nutcase in the universe to see surely??? What right do WikiLeaks have to broadcast that info and how is it in the public interest to do so?

All that could happen from that list being published is that people could be victimised and there's no way at all they could have independently verify that everyone on that list is a BNP member.

It's pretty much the same as throwing a random list of names on the internet and declaring them all pedophiles.

http://www.wikileaks.org/wiki/British_National_Party_membership_and_contacts_list,_2007-2008

Ridiculous.
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good of you to spread the link though mate.
 
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