2024/25 James Garner

[Papa Shango]

One thing the RS have over us is the way they back their players (apart from Trent ). Of all the players we have, I think Garner deserves a bit of grace. We improved significantly when he came back into the side after injury.

Or Karius...

 

[Lanolin]

One thing the RS have over us is the way they back their players (apart from Trent ). Of all the players we have, I think Garner deserves a bit of grace. We improved significantly when he came back into the side after injury.

It is truly one of life’s great questions; why do Liverpool fans rate the players who keep winning them major trophies more highly than we rate the players who win us 4 home games a season. One day we’ll find an answer, I’m sure of it.

 

[EFC_FRANCIS]

It is truly one of life’s great questions; why do Liverpool fans rate the players who keep winning them major trophies more highly than we rate the players who win us 4 home games a season. One day we’ll find an answer, I’m sure of it.

Feel like I live in a different world sometimes. They all hated Henderson till they started winning things. Players like Downing, Adam, Karius, Balotelli, Allen, Borini weren't backed! They'll quickly decide if a player is either best in da werld or nowhere near good enough and not move from that position for years.

 

[Lanolin]

Feel like I live in a different world sometimes. They all hated Henderson till they started winning things. Players like Downing, Adam, Karius, Balotelli, Allen, Borini weren't backed! They'll quickly decide if a player is either best in da werld or nowhere near good enough and not move from that position for years.

100%. This is a fanbase that talks about Paul Konchesky - with his 300+ PL games, England caps, European experience etc - as if he was a pub player who stained the entire existence of the club by daring to play a dozen games for them. The idea that they'd all be happy clapping some of the complete and utter no marks we've had in recent years is absolutely mental.

 

[EFC_FRANCIS]

100%. This is a fanbase that talks about Paul Konchesky - with his 300+ PL games, England caps, European experience etc - as if he was a pub player who stained the entire existence of the club by daring to play a dozen games for them. The idea that they'd all be happy clapping some of the complete and utter no marks we've had in recent years is absolutely mental.

Yep they go on about 'The Hodgson Years' as if it was a tour of Vietnam. It was a 4 month stretch of a season where they still finished above us.

They genuinely would not be able to handle what we have went through. They literally do not know suffering and do not handle even the slightest bit of adversity remotely well. There's no chance they'd back our losers.

 

[wandyr79]

I think if we were looking a minor adjustment to the squad then there is no reason to keep him. Don't think he is a bad player but not maybe that extra level we might need.

However, given the job that Moyes and his team has he is definitely worth keeping around.

 

[DualityNSNO]

Whilst everyone is bone-ing off Brighton and their miraculous midtable finishes, they have already been overtaken by Newcastle and Forest, who both instigated their turnarounds by signing an over 30 Chris Wood!

Youth needs to come through rather than be relied upon imo, and we are actually in a very good position to have Armstrong, Alcaraz and Iroegbunam all coming through in central midfield. They’re great prospects but Moyes isn’t going to be able to rely on them during his contract at Everton. They will be for the next manager imo.

If Moyes can find the next Arteta and sign him then sound, let’s go for the next Arteta instead. But if we can’t do that, then we need realistic alternatives that bring about immediate upgrades. Not eventual upgrades that take 3 years to get going.

Yeah, Newcastle definitely did that by signing only over 30 year old Chris Wood and no one else, and Forest didn't get a points deduction due to buying about 46 players in one summer last year.

I get what you're trying to say but it's just a bit odd - so because youth needs to come through we should rely on 30+ year olds to take up those positions instead of the younger players?

Also "youth needs to come through" is what Brighton are doing themselves, nearly every player they've bought has taken about 3 seasons to properly bed in anyway. We're in no position to do either though - too much youth and it'll be instability; all the old yard dogs and it leads to no one coming through (as it currently is/was, with both Dyche and Moyes favouring ExPerIeNce over anyone under the age of 22). Brighton and Chelsea keep their squads a bit bigger so that skews the average age slightly, but it's around 24.5. For us - 27.5, with less players used, which is a bit crap like (but with Gana and Young it makes sense).

Next manager to come in after Moyes will have to have a decent squad that should have both youth and some PL experience. Garner fits that bill for the current times and he's good enough and here right now and for the next year at least. We'll have likely Gueye, hopefully Doucoure to load off, so we'll need a bunch more midfielders, selling him now would make no sense. As would selling Beto, same reason.

 

[blueboy72]

Yeah, Newcastle definitely did that by signing only over 30 year old Chris Wood and no one else, and Forest didn't get a points deduction due to buying about 46 players in one summer last year.

I get what you're trying to say but it's just a bit odd - so because youth needs to come through we should rely on 30+ year olds to take up those positions instead of the younger players?

Also "youth needs to come through" is what Brighton are doing themselves, nearly every player they've bought has taken about 3 seasons to properly bed in anyway. We're in no position to do either though - too much youth and it'll be instability; all the old yard dogs and it leads to no one coming through (as it currently is/was, with both Dyche and Moyes favouring ExPerIeNce over anyone under the age of 22). Brighton and Chelsea keep their squads a bit bigger so that skews the average age slightly, but it's around 24.5. For us - 27.5, with less players used, which is a bit crap like (but with Gana and Young it makes sense).

Next manager to come in after Moyes will have to have a decent squad that should have both youth and some PL experience. Garner fits that bill for the current times and he's good enough and here right now and for the next year at least. We'll have likely Gueye, hopefully Doucoure to load off, so we'll need a bunch more midfielders, selling him now would make no sense. As would selling Beto, same reason.

But selling garner and Beto would help us from a financial standpoint, I also think Moyes is definitely not a fan of Beto and that’s why the rumours have come out about DCL. Who I think Moyes would rather keep over Beto. And yes and that would add to what we have to do this summer, but we have plenty of time and keeping doucoure ( I wouldn’t ) and DCL would balance out losing beto and garner

 

[DualityNSNO]

But selling garner and Beto would help us from a financial standpoint, I also think Moyes is definitely not a fan of Beto and that’s why the rumours have come out about DCL. Who I think Moyes would rather keep over Beto. And yes and that would add to what we have to do this summer, but we have plenty of time and keeping doucoure ( I wouldn’t ) and DCL would balance out losing beto and garner

Help us from a financial standpoint in what way? Both aren't on huge wages and are first-team-ready players. DCL looks like a proper Moyes type but we'll see if he'll even stay.

If DCL, Beto and Garner go, our #9 situation is - Chermiti (who's never really played consecutive games), that's it.
Our midfield situation would be Doucoure, and no one else - Gueye is also out of contract and between him and Doucs I'd prefer to keep Gueye if one has to stay.

So essentially, we get 20-40m back but need to buy about 5 players instead of two-three, to add the incredible bonus of signing Doucoure again (which I also wouldn't do). It's not as black and white as "DCL > Beto", we need a squad of several players playing similar positions. Starting the season with exactly 16 players for the 3rd year running is a crap idea and we should know it won't work from the previous few times it didn't work.

Keeping Garner, Beto is a decent idea for the next season as we'd have a fuller squad - we would still need to buy probably 2 centre mids and a first choice striker (if DCL leaves) but we also need a 2nd choice striker (like Beto) and some rotation options in midfield (like Garner). I don't think Moyes will value Armstrong as high as we on GOT do sadly, so he'll probably not feature a lot.

 

[blueboy72]

Help us from a financial standpoint in what way? Both aren't on huge wages and are first-team-ready players. DCL looks like a proper Moyes type but we'll see if he'll even stay.

If DCL, Beto and Garner go, our #9 situation is - Chermiti (who's never really played consecutive games), that's it.
Our midfield situation would be Doucoure, and no one else - Gueye is also out of contract and between him and Doucs I'd prefer to keep Gueye if one has to stay.

So essentially, we get 20-40m back but need to buy about 5 players instead of two-three, to add the incredible bonus of signing Doucoure again (which I also wouldn't do). It's not as black and white as "DCL > Beto", we need a squad of several players playing similar positions. Starting the season with exactly 16 players for the 3rd year running is a crap idea and we should know it won't work from the previous few times it didn't work.

Keeping Garner, Beto is a decent idea for the next season as we'd have a fuller squad - we would still need to buy probably 2 centre mids and a first choice striker (if DCL leaves) but we also need a 2nd choice striker (like Beto) and some rotation options in midfield (like Garner). I don't think Moyes will value Armstrong as high as we on GOT do sadly, so he'll probably not feature a lot.

It was looking likely are only striker next season would be Beto, but even that is a huge question mark, considering the club tried to get rid in January. Chermiti going on loan, Broja going back and DCL walking away. Keeping DCL and maybe buying someone like Delap and maybe we buy a wide/striker who can cover a few positions IE a richarlison type but not him.
Selling a garner who has a low book value, maybe as low as 3mil, so selling for 15mil, that 12mil could be worth 60mil on amortisation.

Beto probably has a book value of around 12/13 again we could make a tiny profit on him, we will most likely have to sell a few players.

 

[DualityNSNO]

It was looking likely are only striker next season would be Beto, but even that is a huge question mark, considering the club tried to get rid in January. Chermiti going on loan, Broja going back and DCL walking away. Keeping DCL and maybe buying someone like Delap and maybe we buy a wide/striker who can cover a few positions IE a richarlison type but not him.
Selling a garner who has a low book value, maybe as low as 3mil, so selling for 15mil, that 12mil could be worth 60mil on amortisation.

Beto probably has a book value of around 12/13 again we could make a tiny profit on him, we will most likely have to sell a few players.

Yeah Garner and Beto are 15m together is a truly bizarre take, considering the prices players are going for and the fact we paid double that for Beto alone.

Dyche tried to get rid of Beto in January, not Moyes, no idea where you're getting that from mate.

 

[windymiller]

Yes, amazing.

Brownhill has played in the Prem, and has scored less than 10 and assisted less than 10, from a more advanced position, while taking all/most corners and FKs for a team playing for corners and FKs. Better than Garner for sure, but the Championship doesn't translate to PL obviously. Garner is also a defensive/central midfielder and Brownhill is much more attacking. Cahill was scoring 10+ for Milwall and took him some time to get going for us, but we also got him when he was about Garner's age, not close to 30.

He also has big ears and looks like him and Tarkowski might be related.

Soucek is a good player, but he's pushing 31, and giving money for 30-31 year olds is NOT going to take us forward for more than a year. Or signing them on a free from the Championship. Very short term thinking imo.

Never forget that this is a regular suggestion when you are amazed that Brighton and everyone else have bought yet another (sub-)20 year old who's doing well for less money. We're just not allowed to use scouts or anything it seems.

Anyway, we'll probably sign both of those, re-sign Doucoure, re-sign DCL, get rid of Alcaraz and proceed to shout stability, as the next manager comes in in 2 years will be facing an uphill battle with yet another ageing squad and a rebuild on their hands. The Everton way.

I hate the word stability. It's an absolute nothing word in the context of football. Who wants to be "stable" in 14th - 17th, or even in 8th - 12th, I want instability in the form of rocketing up the league! Then we can have stability up there. Half the people on this forum delight in mediocrity.

 

[blueboy72]

Yeah Garner and Beto are 15m together is a truly bizarre take, considering the prices players are going for and the fact we paid double that for Beto alone.

Dyche tried to get rid of Beto in January, not Moyes, no idea where you're getting that from mate.

Do you get the feeling moyes like beto
Then ?? Yes he’s playing him ( limited options) , though he did leave him out a few games ago. But he’s also criticised him. I’d be amazed if Beto is still an Everton player in September

 

[twoblue]

Yep they go on about 'The Hodgson Years' as if it was a tour of Vietnam. It was a 4 month stretch of a season where they still finished above us.

They genuinely would not be able to handle what we have went through. They literally do not know suffering and do not handle even the slightest bit of adversity remotely well. There's no chance they'd back our losers.

Best thing about the hodgson “years” was that it led to the Dalglish years… which was disaster of every rs fans making

 

[Twinkletoes123]

Is Garner off? His insta has turned dark