2023/24 James Garner

[windymiller]

TBH many state Onana to be a quality DM but hes hardly shone either. Maybe if we acquired some proper attacking players rather than functional workmanlike players they would stand out for their attacking quality. What decent attacking players do we really have?

Hard to know. I suspect in a different team that play different tactics some of our players would look very different.

 

[windymiller]

He could try shooting or putting a ball into the area instead of turning back every time.

He has got it in him which makes it even more annoying.

He is decent enough.

I think he's a good player, I just think we play one way and that offers few opportunities to show anything more. Why do none of our players look to progress the ball? At least part of it must be instruction? I thought we might look to be a bit more expansive against Sheffield Utd given that we are already safe and they are terrible but no, same old, same old.

 

[MJA]

I think he's a good player, I just think we play one way and that offers few opportunities to show anything more. Why do none of our players look to progress the ball? At least part of it must be instruction? I thought we might look to be a bit more expansive against Sheffield Utd given that we are already safe and they are terrible but no, same old, same old.

Or is just that the players we have arent good enough to play any type of progressive passing football. How many of our squad midfield /forward wise do you think are good enough to play a decent quick attacking passing style? I havent seen much evidence of it from many of them. It seems a common theme amongst a lot of our fans to say the players dont look good because of the tactics but at what point is it down to the players themselves to take ownership and get on the ball and show their ability? All i see is paceless attacking options with little ability to pick a killer pass. Maybe the tactics are borne of necessity rather than a steadfast desire from Dyche to be a direct side?

 

[windymiller]

Or is just that the players we have arent good enough to play any type of progressive passing football. How many of our squad midfield /forward wise do you think are good enough to play a decent quick attacking passing style? I havent seen much evidence of it from many of them. It seems a common theme amongst a lot of our fans to say the players dont look good because of the tactics but at what point is it down to the players themselves to take ownership and get on the ball and show their ability? All i see is paceless attacking options with little ability to pick a killer pass. Maybe the tactics are borne of necessity rather than a steadfast desire from Dyche to be a direct side?

This is the argument that has been made all season. I'm not convinced. I don't see anything in the Bournemouth, Brentford or Wolves teams, for example , that is light years ahead of us in terms of player quality and they can sometimes play more attacking brands of football than we do. I fear we've been conditioned by successive owners and managers to have low expectations and accept whatever is served up to us as if it's all that we can aspire to. We have almost no players left now than we had under Allardyce and yet, in both circumstances, it's all the players, the manager's hands are tied, what else can we do? Not buying it. If you stick 10 men behind the ball and bypass the midfield with hoofball tactics every single match it's going to be difficult for your midfielders to shine.

 

[MJA]

This is the argument that has been made all season. I'm not convinced. I don't see anything in the Bournemouth, Brentford or Wolves teams, for example , that is light years ahead of us in terms of player quality and they can sometimes play more attacking brands of football than we do. I fear we've been conditioned by successive owners and managers to have low expectations and accept whatever is served up to us as if it's all that we can aspire to. We have almost no players left now than we had under Allardyce and yet, in both circumstances, it's all the players, the manager's hands are tied, what else can we do? Not buying it. If you stick 10 men behind the ball and bypass the midfield with hoofball tactics every single match it's going to be difficult for your midfielders to shine.

The three you mentioned have pace we have none.

 

[gonetomorrow]

I think he's been a great water-carrier. He's a good player no question but not dynamic or creative enough.

 

[twoblue]

This is the argument that has been made all season. I'm not convinced. I don't see anything in the Bournemouth, Brentford or Wolves teams, for example , that is light years ahead of us in terms of player quality and they can sometimes play more attacking brands of football than we do. I fear we've been conditioned by successive owners and managers to have low expectations and accept whatever is served up to us as if it's all that we can aspire to. We have almost no players left now than we had under Allardyce and yet, in both circumstances, it's all the players, the manager's hands are tied, what else can we do? Not buying it. If you stick 10 men behind the ball and bypass the midfield with hoofball tactics every single match it's going to be difficult for your midfielders to shine.

If we have pace we can knock a ball over the top to run on to, we don’t, so we go long to pick up second balls

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

Or is just that the players we have arent good enough to play any type of progressive passing football. How many of our squad midfield /forward wise do you think are good enough to play a decent quick attacking passing style? I havent seen much evidence of it from many of them. It seems a common theme amongst a lot of our fans to say the players dont look good because of the tactics but at what point is it down to the players themselves to take ownership and get on the ball and show their ability? All i see is paceless attacking options with little ability to pick a killer pass. Maybe the tactics are borne of necessity rather than a steadfast desire from Dyche to be a direct side?

I believe that there is more to come from Garner, but regarding your last point and Dyche, I think this analysis of his time at Burnley explains what we are seeing now.

Dycheball: Decoding the Tactical Mastery of Sean Dyche

How Sean Dyche went from an up and coming managing talent to making ugly football fashionable in the modern era

mtfreport.substack.com

 

[Papa Shango]

I think he's a good player, I just think we play one way and that offers few opportunities to show anything more. Why do none of our players look to progress the ball? At least part of it must be instruction? I thought we might look to be a bit more expansive against Sheffield Utd given that we are already safe and they are terrible but no, same old, same old.

We have been like this for about ten years though. I think we could be much better of the striker (whoever it is) stays central as opposed to drifting wide.

 

[Papa Shango]

This is the argument that has been made all season. I'm not convinced. I don't see anything in the Bournemouth, Brentford or Wolves teams, for example , that is light years ahead of us in terms of player quality and they can sometimes play more attacking brands of football than we do. I fear we've been conditioned by successive owners and managers to have low expectations and accept whatever is served up to us as if it's all that we can aspire to. We have almost no players left now than we had under Allardyce and yet, in both circumstances, it's all the players, the manager's hands are tied, what else can we do? Not buying it. If you stick 10 men behind the ball and bypass the midfield with hoofball tactics every single match it's going to be difficult for your midfielders to shine.

We would be above all those teams if we had our full points total.

Depends what you want really. I'm more than happy to play direct football but it has to be done with purpose rather than aimlessly hitting it up the field.

 

[MJA]

I believe that there is more to come from Garner, but regarding your last point and Dyche, I think this analysis of his time at Burnley explains what we are seeing now.

Dycheball: Decoding the Tactical Mastery of Sean Dyche

How Sean Dyche went from an up and coming managing talent to making ugly football fashionable in the modern era

mtfreport.substack.com

Maybe. But as stated in the article with limited resources at Burnley. Thats also what we have available now so is it expected that he deviates from whats worked for him and try to play expansive football with the players we have now? I suspect if we tried to play any sort of decent passing football at the moment we would soon realise why we dont. If he had come in and spent all kinds of money to then play "hoofball" whatever that is then i could understand the complaints. I just dont see us playing neat and tidy passing stuff with Gana garner Doucoure Harrison and Mcneill as our options.

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

Maybe. But as stated in the article with limited resources at Burnley. Thats also what we have available now so is it expected that he deviates from whats worked for him and try to play expansive football with the players we have now? I suspect if we tried to play any sort of decent passing football at the moment we would soon realise why we dont. If he had come in and spent all kinds of money to then play "hoofball" whatever that is then i could understand the complaints. I just dont see us playing neat and tidy passing stuff with Gana garner Doucoure Harrison and Mcneill as our options.

I reckon Garner and McNeil have it in them and Gana filled a role at PSG.

 

[MJA]

I reckon Garner and McNeil have it in them and Gana filled a role at PSG.

Gana only looked anywhere near his old self for the last few games and is a destroyer rather than a ball player. Mcneill has a pass in him but his form has been very in and out and Garner im yet to see enough evidence either way but i hope he is a player.

 

[windymiller]

The three you mentioned have pace we have none.

Look, there's no convincing the people who are certain that our squad is league one standard that they're anything other than that despite 70 years of top flight football refuting it. The bottom half of the premier league is full of poor squads, some with one or two good players (including us - Branthwaite being the obvious example) I'll grant you, but ours isn't any worse. Nobody is "performing any miracles" despite the narrative. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

 

[MJA]

Look, there's no convincing the people who are certain that our squad is league one standard that they're anything other than that despite 70 years of top flight football refuting it. The bottom half of the premier league is full of poor squads, some with one or two good players (including us - Branthwaite being the obvious example) I'll grant you, but ours isn't any worse. Nobody is "performing any miracles" despite the narrative. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

I never said the squad was League 1 standard nor anyone is performing miracles so i dunno what thats supposed to mean. Anyway its the Garner thread and ive maybe steered it off course slightly so i will leave it there.