Is North America now the biggest hotbed for football talent after Europe?

[tommye]

Historically, South America has always been a hotbed for footballing talent. Even outside of Brazil and Argentina, the likes of Chile, Uruguay and Colombia have produced immense talent in the past. Currently, we are in 2021 and South American talent has dried up. Uruguay, Chile and Colombia don't really have any new players to replace their aging superstars. Brazil aren't exactly producing anybody special anymore. Argentina are probably the only South American that have decent prospects but even then, they are not that impressive. Now, let's look at Anglo American countries like USA and Canada. Alphonso Davies is probably the best LB in the world. Sergino Dest one of the best full-backs in the world at his age. Players like Pulisic are much better than Vinicius Jr. Jonathan David is better than any youth Brazilian prospect and he has won Lille the Ligue 1. Players like Reyna, McKennie, Adams are considered one of the best prospects in the world. America's youth talent is never-ending and they've got more stars in the pipeline coming through such as Aaronson and Dike.

Are we seeing a change in football now? Is North America the new South America when it comes to talent?

 

[RAFUH]

The thread is about North America though, not the US

The title was, but the OP completely ignored Mexico and specifies “Anglo-American” countries




Not sure what OP is trying to say.

 

[SerenityNigh]

Well, seeing as Canada is in North America, then yes. But no one really identifies themselves as being from a continent instead of a nation. I presume you're from somewhere Europe, likely England, but I would also presume you don't call yourself European.

North American Scum

 

[SerenityNigh]

The title was, but the OP completely ignored Mexico and specifies “Anglo-American” countries


View attachment 131068

Not sure what OP is trying to say.

Yeah, I didn't want to bring up El Tri, in part because I don't know if Mexico would rather identify as part of Latin America vs North America, but also because thread/fire. But also, I'm glad we're no longer Der United States Fussball Manner that we were just a few years ago. So, when are we winning the World Cup?

 

[Lineker]

Well seeing as America were knocked out of the World Cup last time by Panama who were a pub team that got smashed then I'd hush about the side you follow.

Let's hope England never get knocked out of world cup qualifying by a relative minnow like Norway...that would be embaradsing.

 

[barneygumble]

It’s a long term project, and they’re slowly, getting there, certainly from an American perspective anyway.

But that’s always been the American way of sports, they’re ultra competitive and always want to be the best. Football is always going to be a challenge to break through there based on Basketball, Baseball, American Football, but they’re starting to realise that football is a huge, huge market and it’s growing like crazy. None of this BS Diana Ross WC 94 nonsense they had, but they’re getting there.

The likes of Pulisic, Dest, Adams and McKinnie suggests they’re getting there and the market will only continue to grow with having the World Cup in 2026. Still think they’ll be 20-30 years off, but considering they’ve went from Preki to the current crop, it’s huge improvement.

 

[obc]

The thread is about North America though, not the US

SSsssshhhh. I was waiting to see how many pages deep this thread would get before they figured it out.

As for the US, we are starting to develop a lot of young talent that are playing in, well, bigger clubs than Everton now. It's been The Sport of Tomorrow forever in this country, but with this summer seems a big shift. Was the young guns in that tournament, not the last guard who flamed out of CONCACAF qualfiiers.

Success will beget more success. Seeing Pulisic hoist trophies, Dest and McKinnie likely to do the same will no doubt have an impact on youngsters in this country believing there they can attain success beyond MLS, something to shoot for.

The youth system is every bit as shambolic as Football is across the globe, from FIFA's Qatar Cup to CONMEBOL running the COPA during a pandemic to Ingerland's FA not even giving the Scumbag Six a slap on the wrist... but I believe at some point some folks with money will figure out how to better utilize it. Big European Clubs will come a calling, like Bayern Munich setting up academies over here. Let's be real, just developing a few mid-range players they can sell to other clubs will probably nearly offset costs, let alone should they strike gold

Better than SA? No. But doing better than any point in our historical past.

I still hate US Soccer from the manager on up, but have hope for the future given the younger players. Country has always gotten by with just grit and desrie. "We're not as good as you so we're just going to have to play harder." When we have guys with that same grit and desire getting the technical side of their game improved by the likes of Juventus, Chelski, Barca, hell, virtually any Euro club other than rudderless Everton, our Int'l performances will improve as well.

 

[TimHowardsBeardJuice]

Yeah, I didn't want to bring up El Tri, in part because I don't know if Mexico would rather identify as part of Latin America vs North America, but also because thread/fire. But also, I'm glad we're no longer Der United States Fussball Manner that we were just a few years ago. So, when are we winning the World Cup?

Doesn't matter what they'd prefer to identify as, they're in North America and CONCACAF.

 

[TimHowardsBeardJuice]

A few of my friends and I once went behind the supermarket after having too much to drink one night and spraypainted US OUT OF NORTH AMERICA on the loading dock door. It was funny, trust me.

 

[TimHowardsBeardJuice]

SSsssshhhh. I was waiting to see how many pages deep this thread would get before they figured it out.

As for the US, we are starting to develop a lot of young talent that are playing in, well, bigger clubs than Everton now. It's been The Sport of Tomorrow forever in this country, but with this summer seems a big shift. Was the young guns in that tournament, not the last guard who flamed out of CONCACAF qualfiiers.

Success will beget more success. Seeing Pulisic hoist trophies, Dest and McKinnie likely to do the same will no doubt have an impact on youngsters in this country believing there they can attain success beyond MLS, something to shoot for.

The youth system is every bit as shambolic as Football is across the globe, from FIFA's Qatar Cup to CONMEBOL running the COPA during a pandemic to Ingerland's FA not even giving the Scumbag Six a slap on the wrist... but I believe at some point some folks with money will figure out how to better utilize it. Big European Clubs will come a calling, like Bayern Munich setting up academies over here. Let's be real, just developing a few mid-range players they can sell to other clubs will probably nearly offset costs, let alone should they strike gold

Better than SA? No. But doing better than any point in our historical past.

I still hate US Soccer from the manager on up, but have hope for the future given the younger players. Country has always gotten by with just grit and desrie. "We're not as good as you so we're just going to have to play harder." When we have guys with that same grit and desire getting the technical side of their game improved by the likes of Juventus, Chelski, Barca, hell, virtually any Euro club other than rudderless Everton, our Int'l performances will improve as we

The problem is that, like most American sports, training at the U12 levels and up is mostly accomplished in pay-for-play "travel team" programs. Yes, high schools (for 14-18 year olds) have sports programs and some of the coaches can be good, but players (girls or boys) with serious ambitions in basketball, soccer*, baseball/softball, ice hockey, and even things like tennis, gymnastics etc. participate in programs with paid full time coaches, equipment etc. traveling to surrounding towns and often to out of state tournaments. This is all very expensive and it rewards well-off kids whose parents can afford it.

The emphasis, unfortunately, is on getting their kids scholarships to universities where they can get free tuition and room & board in exchange for playing on the school's sports teams. That's what parents and kids want. It's hard to explain sometimes to Brits and other non-Yanks how obsessed Americans are with getting their kids into a good college, and how pervasive college sports are in USA, especially college football - of the 20 largest stadiums in the world, 13 are for American college football programs, which have 100,000+ capacity stadiums to host six or maybe seven games a year. Football and men's basketball attract the biggest crowds and TV audiences, but a good-sized American college or university will have all of their mens' and womens' soccer programs full of players on scholarships and parents spending several times more on training their kids to earn a spot than it would cost to just pay for the schooling outright. As a sign of how deranged American culture is over this, several American tv stars, whose kids will never have to work a day in their lives if they dropped out of school at 16, got jailed for bribing fancy colleges to admit their kids on fake sports scholarships: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53871023

So in these youth soccer* programs, things like nous, tactical knowledge, technique are not well taught, it's mostly physical strength and endurance. Nothing wrong with that per se, but it's common for American youth teams to be made up of good athletes who can cover the pitch better than opponents and dominate with their physical skill, but would chase shadows in a game of five-a-side on a small pitch with players who learned the game in stronger footballing cultures. The idea that you would take promising youngsters and put them into an English academy-type setting, to learn the game from the ground up but not necessarily prepare for college, would fill most American parents with horror. There is some gradual change - for example, USA international Tyler Adams grew up near NYC, came up through the New York Red Bulls academy, played for Red Bulls II at 16 and then for the MLS side at 17, and now plays for RB Leipzig.

The country is big enough that we're now starting to put together a good international side with only a small % of our player pool coming good, but I don't see USA really challenging to push beyond the ceiling of CONCACAF sides generally until the structure changes. Right now the incentive is to get youth coaches paid by parents willing to throw money at them even (especially?) for bad players, and good players from poor backgrounds don't get chances. Now that MLS has come to accept that it's a good thing to be a selling league, and the light bulb goes on that they can make a lot more money selling tactically skilled young players to Bundesliga and PL sides, and players like Pulisic, McKennie, etc succeed and educate the American public that winning the CL for Chelsea is a BFD, I expect the culture to change but it will take time.

*using 'soccer' to distinguish from American football for purposes of this post.

 

[TheBigIguana]

The problem is that, like most American sports, training at the U12 levels and up is mostly accomplished in pay-for-play "travel team" programs. Yes, high schools (for 14-18 year olds) have sports programs and some of the coaches can be good, but players (girls or boys) with serious ambitions in basketball, soccer*, baseball/softball, ice hockey, and even things like tennis, gymnastics etc. participate in programs with paid full time coaches, equipment etc. traveling to surrounding towns and often to out of state tournaments. This is all very expensive and it rewards well-off kids whose parents can afford it.

The emphasis, unfortunately, is on getting their kids scholarships to universities where they can get free tuition and room & board in exchange for playing on the school's sports teams. That's what parents and kids want. It's hard to explain sometimes to Brits and other non-Yanks how obsessed Americans are with getting their kids into a good college, and how pervasive college sports are in USA, especially college football - of the 20 largest stadiums in the world, 13 are for American college football programs, which have 100,000+ capacity stadiums to host six or maybe seven games a year. Football and men's basketball attract the biggest crowds and TV audiences, but a good-sized American college or university will have all of their mens' and womens' soccer programs full of players on scholarships and parents spending several times more on training their kids to earn a spot than it would cost to just pay for the schooling outright. As a sign of how deranged American culture is over this, several American tv stars, whose kids will never have to work a day in their lives if they dropped out of school at 16, got jailed for bribing fancy colleges to admit their kids on fake sports scholarships: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53871023

So in these youth soccer* programs, things like nous, tactical knowledge, technique are not well taught, it's mostly physical strength and endurance. Nothing wrong with that per se, but it's common for American youth teams to be made up of good athletes who can cover the pitch better than opponents and dominate with their physical skill, but would chase shadows in a game of five-a-side on a small pitch with players who learned the game in stronger footballing cultures. The idea that you would take promising youngsters and put them into an English academy-type setting, to learn the game from the ground up but not necessarily prepare for college, would fill most American parents with horror. There is some gradual change - for example, USA international Tyler Adams grew up near NYC, came up through the New York Red Bulls academy, played for Red Bulls II at 16 and then for the MLS side at 17, and now plays for RB Leipzig.

The country is big enough that we're now starting to put together a good international side with only a small % of our player pool coming good, but I don't see USA really challenging to push beyond the ceiling of CONCACAF sides generally until the structure changes. Right now the incentive is to get youth coaches paid by parents willing to throw money at them even (especially?) for bad players, and good players from poor backgrounds don't get chances. Now that MLS has come to accept that it's a good thing to be a selling league, and the light bulb goes on that they can make a lot more money selling tactically skilled young players to Bundesliga and PL sides, and players like Pulisic, McKennie, etc succeed and educate the American public that winning the CL for Chelsea is a BFD, I expect the culture to change but it will take time.

*using 'soccer' to distinguish from American football for purposes of this post.

I think the change is really started to an extent. Adams, Aaronson, Richards, even McKennie was in the Dallas system for years first. Yeah they went to Europe young but that's no different from the best South American players. I really think we're surprisingly close to having a pretty consistent pipeline from some of the better academies in the country even if it means selling players to Europe when they're 18-20 and having them really blossom there. I look at someone like Dike now and although he's fine with dominating the Earthquakes he is aware that Europe is the place to be and will get back as soon as he can. The types of teams that we sent to World Cups in 2010 or 2014, or the side that missed it in 2018, I see as firmly in the past.

It doesn't mean that other aspects of our club system aren't supremely broken with the scholarships and what not but I think that actually goes past soccer into other youth sports too. As far as supplying the national team goes I think we're headed in a solid direction. We aren't going to be good enough in 2022 but I really do think with the right development and the home advantage we could be around deep into the tournament in 2026.

 

[TimHowardsBeardJuice]

I think the change is really started to an extent. Adams, Aaronson, Richards, even McKennie was in the Dallas system for years first. Yeah they went to Europe young but that's no different from the best South American players. I really think we're surprisingly close to having a pretty consistent pipeline from some of the better academies in the country even if it means selling players to Europe when they're 18-20 and having them really blossom there. I look at someone like Dike now and although he's fine with dominating the Earthquakes he is aware that Europe is the place to be and will get back as soon as he can. The types of teams that we sent to World Cups in 2010 or 2014, or the side that missed it in 2018, I see as firmly in the past.

It doesn't mean that other aspects of our club system aren't supremely broken with the scholarships and what not but I think that actually goes past soccer into other youth sports too. As far as supplying the national team goes I think we're headed in a solid direction. We aren't going to be good enough in 2022 but I really do think with the right development and the home advantage we could be around deep into the tournament in 2026.

I think we're in agreement, yes I think it's headed the right way.

 

[TheBigIguana]

I think we're in agreement, yes I think it's headed the right way.

Yeah we are, I just think the problems are firmly in the past and although the premise of this thread is premature it might not always be wrong. In 2010 that seemed impossible.

 

[obc]

This is all very expensive and it rewards well-off kids whose parents can afford it.

There is some gradual change - for example, USA international Tyler Adams grew up near NYC, came up through the New York Red Bulls academy, played for Red Bulls II at 16 and then for the MLS side at 17, and now plays for RB Leipzig.

I have a friend who lived in the Southwest and his son was on one of those traveling teams. Candid conversation he estimated the cost was about $10k per year, with hiim doing what he could to cut costs. Absolutely ridiculous and why I look to foreign clubs building their own academies and investing in talent rather than requiring talent to invest in the sport. Maybe more MLS sides will model Bayern or Dallas.

And as far as Tyler Adams and RB Leipzig goes, earlier today:



@rogbennett

Incredible: 18-Year-Old Medina, Minnesota-born midfielder Caden Clark signed by RB Leipzig, 2nd place in Germany's Bundesliga last season. He'll be coached by Racine, WI's Jesse Marsch and play with Tyler Adams of Wappingers Falls, NY. How you say "America's Team" in German?