Is 7th and "Net Spend" The Only Reason To Keep Moyes

[nigelcoyb]

The popular premise is that Football is dictated by money and depending on your figures there's a case for isolating 7th spot in the league talk about "net spend" and ignore everything else to justify Moyes.

No trophy or even CL qualification does it give just respectability and stability - enough to keep the masses quiet and allow Bill to go unquestioned and the manager carte blanche to dictate when or IF he wants to sign a contract at Everton Football Club.

Yet when the old SKY 4 were more powerful than todays flaky Spurs, Liverpool, Arsenal even Chelsea Moyes replaced Walter and had us in the Champions League within 3 seasons - so why not change?

Also it ignores the massive elephant in the room - Moyes chokes the really big games and as a result doesn't win trophies.

The last 2 games represent the other side of the Moyes story a big game against lowly Wigan with a real opportunity of winning the FA cup and it's blown.

Not heroic defeat with all guns blazing but the now familiar whimper of a team overawed and unprepared the same pattern of surrender we've seen time after time season upon season.

Amidst uproar and ire the performance against the billionaire champions a week later shows what could be happening at Everton ... and the question has to be asked:- why not when it really matters?

You poor souls who have never seen EFC win anything are missing a glimpse of heaven - forget 7th, forget CL qualification - the blues ending a barren spell with a trophy changes your life (Everton v Watford FA cup final still brings tears).

Moyes work is destroyed by this recurring flaw the whole point of management is fulfilling potential getting less talented players playing at 100% to turn over more talented prima donnas playing at 80% and lets be honest bar Man Utd the rest are up and down like a whore's draws.

Talent wise this squad has it, top 4 was there to be had with instability rife at other clubs, we had the the ace up our sleeve - 11 years of stability - never was there a better chance. But it hasn't happened.

Moyes lacks "something" - motivational skills I suspect judging by his media utterances there is something that "prevents" rather than "enables" about him. The City result seemed motivated by Twitter, Talksport and The Echo judging by the reaction at the end.

"7th" and nothing more with people waffling about "net spend" gives Bill and Co a free ride not that I think Bill is the devil incarnate the majority of boardrooms are festooned with people in it for themselves. It's just there's no pressure for him to do anything about anything in the land of nod that Goodison has become, he'll stay forever as it stands.

The first step has to be change of manager - 7th and "net spend" doesn't do it for me.

 

[steken1]

Nor me. The more I see and speak to US I see how deeply scarred lids are from the 90's. It still gets a mention in any conversation about what will happen after Moyes if there's 5 or 6 of us. Ironically usually by the arl arses which you wouldn't expect.

It's near a decade since there was any threat of us dropping. The manager still talks about getting our forty on the board etc, etc. I hate that mentality.

 

[Bacon On]

Agreed with top two posts so far.

The manager still talks about getting our forty on the board etc, etc. I hate that mentality.

I really really dislike this as it goes without saying that's the first step on any managers to do list, why mention it atall? I'd rather Moyes say, "in seasons gone it's been about getting forty on the board but our current crop of players will achieve that anyways as they have the ability and desire to seriously challenge for trophies".

I don't think our players have a winning mentality unless it comes to a big game and even then we still balls them up, i reckon if Moyes stopped banging on about finances, knife to gunfight etc and focused on rallying the players he does have then we'd have a dangerous squad, i reckon it's probably the reason Moyes will never be a truely great manager.

 

[chicoazul]

I watched highlights of the 95 Cup Final during the week and was gutted. Eighteen years is too long. It should rest heavy on those who are in any position of power at the club.

 

[Goat]

"The City result seemed motivated by Twitter, Talksport and The Echo judging by the reaction at the end."

LOL

 

[steken1]

Agreed with top two posts so far.



I really really dislike this as it goes without saying that's the first step on any managers to do list, why mention it atall? I'd rather Moyes say, "in seasons gone it's been about getting forty on the board but our current crop of players will achieve that anyways as they have the ability and desire to seriously challenge for trophies".

I don't think our players have a winning mentality unless it comes to a big game and even then we still balls them up, i reckon if Moyes stopped banging on about finances, knife to gunfight etc and focused on rallying the players he does have then we'd have a dangerous squad, i reckon it's probably the reason Moyes will never be a truely great manager.

Mourinho's the master of all that nonsense mate. He says himself press conferences and interviews he's mostly talking to his players. I always ask myself when Moyes speaks 'would Mourinho say that?'. Sadly a lot of the time it's a no.

Even more sadly this motivating factor or side of it that Moyes lacks is what holds him back. He'd be a truly elite manager up there with the very best if he developed it. He holds himself back as much as his teams.

 

[Timak]

Yet when the old SKY 4 were more powerful than todays flaky Spurs, Liverpool, Arsenal even Chelsea Moyes replaced Walter and had us in the Champions League within 3 seasons - so why not change?

Not sure I understand. If you mean that the "old Sky 4" were more powerful than the current competition then I can't agree. Back when we finished 4th we only had to finish above one of them to qualify. Now we have Manchester City and Tottenham in the mix too. So we have to finish above 3 teams with huge squads filled with more talented players, able to reinforce whenever the need arises.

Also it ignores the massive elephant in the room - Moyes chokes the really big games and as a result doesn't win trophies.

How do you decide which the big games are? Did we choke when finishing 4th (beating Man Utd / Newcastle in must win games)? Did we choke when beating Liverpool, Villa, Boro, Man Utd to get to the cup final? Or does only losing to Chelsea (the most expensively assembled team in world football at the time)?

And who says we choke? Sometimes we lose to better teams. Other times we lose to worse teams who play better on the day.

The last 2 games represent the other side of the Moyes story a big game against lowly Wigan with a real opportunity of winning the FA cup and it's blown.

Not heroic defeat with all guns blazing but the now familiar whimper of a team overawed and unprepared the same pattern of surrender we've seen time after time season upon season.

But what you seem to be asking for is a team that always beats worse teams AND always beats the better teams AND wins trophies. It would be good if you could give an example of a team that does this because otherwise it doesn't seem realistic.

Amidst uproar and ire the performance against the billionaire champions a week later shows what could be happening at Everton ... and the question has to be asked:- why not when it really matters?

Again you are picking which games you think matter and which don't.

You poor souls who have never seen EFC win anything are missing a glimpse of heaven - forget 7th, forget CL qualification - the blues ending a barren spell with a trophy changes your life (Everton v Watford FA cup final still brings tears).

Yeah it was great, but back then we could compete financially. We were one of the big spenders. The "Mersey Millionaires" period, signing the likes of Lineker etc meant we could win stuff.

Moyes work is destroyed by this recurring flaw the whole point of management is fulfilling potential getting less talented players playing at 100% to turn over more talented prima donnas playing at 80% and lets be honest bar Man Utd the rest are up and down like a whore's draws.

So all you expect from our manager is to get our players to perform at 100% every game whilst expecting the opposition manager to only get theirs to perform at 80%. Is that fair or realistic?

Talent wise this squad has it, top 4 was there to be had with instability rife at other clubs, we had the the ace up our sleeve - 11 years of stability - never was there a better chance. But it hasn't happened.

Which two teams out of Man City, Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool, Tottenham do we have a better squad then?
Which manager assembled the squad you rate as the 4th best in the country for no money?

Moyes lacks "something" - motivational skills I suspect judging by his media utterances there is something that "prevents" rather than "enables" about him. The City result seemed motivated by Twitter, Talksport and The Echo judging by the reaction at the end.

Can you name a manager that does have "something"?

"7th" and nothing more with people waffling about "net spend" gives Bill and Co a free ride not that I think Bill is the devil incarnate the majority of boardrooms are festooned with people in it for themselves. It's just there's no pressure for him to do anything about anything in the land of nod that Goodison has become, he'll stay forever as it stands.

The first step has to be change of manager - 7th and "net spend" doesn't do it for me.

See that is just bizarre. You see the problem, the board, but want the manager to go.

Do you honestly believe that the problem with this club is the manager and that someone else could do better?

 

[toffeemeister77]

I'm as gutted as anyone about the Wigan game but l would be gutted if Moyes left. I posted this the other day:-

Depressing tunover stats

Everton - £80 million
West Ham - £81 million
Liverpool - £180 million
Man Utd - £350 million

It's the board we need to focus on. No manager can compensate for the kind of financial gap that is growing between us and the top teams. Unfortunately the league table very closely matches the wage league apart from us.

We are lucky to have Moyes it's the board that has ****ed this club.

 

[Brennan]

Yes, lets get rid of the manager who has made us a 7th placed team despite meagre finances, that will defo improve the situation.

 

[Brennan]

I'm as gutted as anyone about the Wigan game but l would be gutted if Moyes left. I posted this the other day:-

Depressing tunover stats

Everton - £80 million
West Ham - £81 million
Liverpool - £180 million
Man Utd - £350 million

It's the board we need to focus on. No manager can compensate for the kind of financial gap that is growing between us and the top teams. Unfortunately the league table very closely matches the wage league apart from us.

We are lucky to have Moyes it's the board that has ****ed this club.

Turnover doesn't matter so much, as pointed out by AF the other day it's wages and transfer spends that count. As far as wages are concerned every one of the teams currently above us in the table has gotten further away from us in terms of wages, and yet Moyes has massively improved our league position pretty much every year.

People going on about trophies are also wilfully ignoring the fact that the last trophy was one after a large amount of spending.

 

[steken1]

Yes, lets get rid of the manager who has made us a 7th placed team despite meagre finances, that will defo improve the situation.

Let's keep getting our hearts broke in games that matter. Be sound another few decades of this like. Nothing like the feeling of sitting on a coach on ya way home from Wembley, lost yer voice, all rotten and nobody bothers to speak til Brum cos your all gutted, AGAIN.

 

[manxtoffee]

Lol Brennan lad, the colour of your mast changes more than a hooker taking off her panties. Just sayin like..

 

[Timak]

Let's keep getting our hearts broke in games that matter. Be sound another few decades of this like. Nothing like the feeling of sitting on a coach on ya way home from Wembley, lost yer voice, all rotten and nobody bothers to speak til Brum cos your all gutted, AGAIN.

Yeah lets make sure we get nowhere near those type of games in the first place.

Far better to finish 15th and lose in the first round or two of every cup so we don't get our poor little hearts broken by coming close.

 

[electricblue]

There's no point in starting a campaign to get rid of Moyes because

1) there is no way on this earth that Bill would sack him, and

2) he's going at the end of the season anyway.

 

[Dell Boy]

It's not about net spend. Brennan is selling snake oil.

Any club that sticks with a manager so long is going to spend much less than the benchmark.

Moyes has had a huge sum to spend and invest over the years with no pressure applied.

He trousers a huge wage. He's paid to perform.