Improvements?

[blue_aussie05]

Atsu has hardly played all season, only the odd sub appearance here and there. How many starts has he made this season?

The situation is obviously bad enough for Chelsea to complain about his lack of game time during his loan spell. In fact, he'd played so little that there was talk on here about the possibility of him being returned to Chelsea in January.

I remember him pulling a hamstring in Europe at the end of December, but then had a barnstorming African nations cup. He played ok-ish off the bench at home to Leicester when he returned, but where's he been since? Dropped, or injured again?

 

[degsy]

44% say yes we have made improvements.
Pretty much along the lines of the Martinez poll.
I say no
All we have here is a Hitler Vs Stalin argument - which for different reasons is least worst

So for that reason

I'm out

 

[blue_aussie05]

Bad seat sniffer you lad.

Its actually De gea who got Utd where they are now.

He such a great manager that he took an absolute winning machine took them all the way down to seventh until he was laughed outve town by Utd and its fans.

He got found out big time, he has his level and its nowhere near the top.

Dymak, I agree with the bit in bold, which is in direct response to your comment about Moyes being poached.

I think a club like Everton is Moyes' level. United was a step too far, in my opinion. I was surprised when they approached him, given his track record of no trophies, bottle jobs in big games, dreadful results away at the big 4, dreadful derby results etc. His one big achievement, which really surprised me, was him reaching the CL quarters.

So Dymak, if Moyes was still in charge at Man U, how do you propose he'd have fared this season? Better or worse than LvG? Would Moyes still be in the job now?

 

[Jeff Jones]

My answer to the question 'Have we made any improvements since Moyes?' was yes, but if the question was 'Have we improved since
Moyes?', the answer would be no.

I'm not going to explain or analyse that because it'd take too long, but I remember one frustrating period of Moyes time when we moved the
ball forward quite well, usually, but had no idea what to do when we got there.

On Saturday we had 22 attempts on goal but didn't score. Nothing's changed, really.

 

[Dymak]

Bad seat sniffer you lad.

Its actually De gea who got Utd where they are now.

He such a great manager that he took an absolute winning machine took them all the way down to seventh until he was laughed outve town by Utd and its fans.

He got found out big time, he has his level and its nowhere near the top.

Oh no, some sad little Year 9 has just labelled me as a seat sniffer, just what am I going to do with myself?

It's alright mate, I'll let you carry on vilifying the man who took Everton out of the footballing doldrums after honouring an 11 year long contract, just because he failed to get United going after less than a season, and after he had only spent a similar amount to Martinez at Everton, whilst you simultaneously argue that Martinez hasn't been given enough time yet (people will be saying it next year when he will have been in the job three years).

Moyes is a far better manager than Martinez, and I am entirely confident that their respective Everton records will prove that.

 

[Zodiak2]

I think Moyes was unlucky at Manchester United to be honest and should have been given more time.

There was always going to be a hangover post Alex Ferguson, and the Bloke Woodward was absolutely clueless when it came to transfer dealings and their whole pre season turned in to a farce.

Moyes wasn't backed anywhere near like LVG and they're not exactly doing much better now after that investment.

Not saying he would have been a big success there, but IMO he should have been given last summer to get the players he wanted, and then this season to prove himself.

I'm not convinced Moyes wouldn't have gotten United in a similar position or better than Van Gaal has this year.

 

[Eric Djemba-Djemba]

Moyes wasn't unlucky at United. He's not a winner and was never going to be a success at a club with actual expectations.

 

[royalblue66]

Like these Moyes threads.

 

[Deleted member 24970]

Moyes and Martinez are two seperate managers, Moyes is a more cautious, solid, defend first score goals later, 1-0 kind of guy with a eye for great signings for cheap.

Martinez is a more attack minded, outscore the opponent, 3-2 kind of guy, who waffles a load of plop from time to time. His signings are yet to be judged.

Problem is one of the above achieves his aims the other has disapointed.


We need a hybrid of both. A Daverto Martinoyes.

Problem sorted.

 

[sageyefc]

Oh no, some sad little Year 9 has just labelled me as a seat sniffer, just what am I going to do with myself?

It's alright mate, I'll let you carry on vilifying the man who took Everton out of the footballing doldrums after honouring an 11 year long contract, just because he failed to get United going after less than a season, and after he had only spent a similar amount to Martinez at Everton, whilst you simultaneously argue that Martinez hasn't been given enough time yet (people will be saying it next year when he will have been in the job three years).

Moyes is a far better manager than Martinez, and I am entirely confident that their respective Everton records will prove that.

Far to early to judge, but so far im pretty sure they both have the same average league finsh.

And roberto broke his points total in his first season, broke numerous records and generally had us playing our best football in decades, if anything that shows he has a higher potential than moist has. Lets see how he does after what has been the expected slump of this season

 

[degsy]

Moyes and Martinez are two seperate managers, Moyes is a more cautious, solid, defend first score goals later, 1-0 kind of guy with a eye for great signings for cheap.

Martinez is a more attack minded, outscore the opponent, 3-2 kind of guy, who waffles a load of plop from time to time. His signings are yet to be judged.

Problem is one of the above achieves his aims the other has disapointed.


We need a hybrid of both. A Daverto Martinoyes.

Problem sorted.

Short version; The Goldilocks Option

 

[degsy]

I dont think there's any excuse for pros not to be able to do what Martinez is asking of them. I've seen/heard it stated loads of times that 'we dont have the quality of players to play that system'. It's nonsense. It's having the ability to find a team mate with a pass that doesn't put them under too much pressure and finding space to receive yourself and to be able to carry the ball if need be into yawning space. It's nothing special being asked of them. Look at Swansea: for a decade or more they've had bog standard players playing comfortably like that on the ball. Look at S'ton this past season or so and the way they can all move as a unit together. You dont need bundles of cash, you just need a system that players are 100% sure about and feel like it's second nature to them.

Our problem (although I dont think it's as big a problem as some suggest, because we had this system working in the first season) is that:

a) we have players still left in the squad who have the residue of playing a different way in their mindset under earlier managers (key people like Baines, Jagielka, Mirallas, even the GK) and they dont ever seem comfortable in this new system. despite last season.

b ) (and I said this when Martinez arrived) we have a support base weaned on direct football during the last 15 years who need to be re-educated about what football should look like when its played at its best, but who in the meantime have no patience whatsoever with a team trying to find its identity as a passing, ground centred unit.

Martinez was and remains the best chance we have of dragging ourselves into the 21st century of football.

Item b ) Include me out. I know what proper football is. I know why ball retention is Important etc. etc.
What we have in the here and now is a sow's ear that Roberto won't be able to make into a silk purse.
He just hasn't got all the shots required in his locker. He may be able to do it with a gold purse to fund it. But that's not likely to happen.

edit; as Moyes maybe could if he had a gold purse.

In the absence of the mythical Gold Purse We need the Goldilocks option