Improvements?

[ETID88]

Absolutely no bait at all. Serious questions. Before you jump over me I'm not a Moyes fan boy.

The style of football Martinez has implemented this season, has it been an improvement on Moyes reign?

Do you feel we have made improvements since Moyes departure? If so how/where?

I shall post my views later, in an attempt to not to thought of being bias towards either option.

 

[Boss_Blue]

The style of football Martinez has implemented this season, has it been an improvement on Moyes reign

At Moyes' best then no, this season has not.

At Moyes' worst, yes it has.

Do you feel we have made improvements since Moyes departure? If so how/where

Yes: last season.

No: this season.


In summary, Martinez has had one great season and one mediocre season. To compare his tenure with Moyes fairly would require at least another season (possibly more).

Have we made real tangible progress in the last two seasons?


Ask me again at Christmas.

 

[Eggs]

.....I have to say that I always thought we would go backwards as soon as Moyes left. A real challenge would be to maintain the status quo and to a certain extent we have done that over the balance of the last two seasons.

At times this season RM has been tactically inept, particularly in our Europa exit and his persistence in playing both Naismith and Barkley. On the plus side we have the type of centre forward we have wanted for a long time and although transfer dealings are a bit mixed, I suspect we would get more than we paid for the likes of MCCarthy and Besic.

Next season will be more defining.

 

[davek]

Absolutely no bait at all. Serious questions. Before you jump over me I'm not a Moyes fan boy.
The style of football Martinez has implemented this season, has it been an improvement on Moyes reign?
Do you feel we have made improvements since Moyes departure? If so how/where?
I shall post my views later, in an attempt to not to thought of being bias towards either option.

As if the very act of bringing up the matter for discussion doesn't imply a particular bias.

 

[ETID88]

Merely a question Davek. Take it how you will.

 

[tim cahill]

I don't think there's a big difference to be honest. We seemed to take a lot of teams by surprise last season as we adapted our style but now our opposition have adapted we can't find an answer to it. We'll have to see how things go next season. To be fair to moyes he found a way of finishing in the top 7 regularly.

 

[davek]

Merely a question Davek. Take it how you will.

I did.

 

[tim cahill]

As if the very act of bringing up the matter for discussion doesn't imply a particular bias.

I think it's a good and a fair question to be honest. In many jobs people are judged by the progress they make.

 

[davek]

I think it's a good and a fair question to be honest. In many jobs people are judged by the progress they make.

Well, I'll take a wild leap into the unknown and hazard a guess that the OP's pov (when it arrives) will be to state that there is 'no improvements'.

As for the debate itself: if people want the semi-agricultural football of getting the ball into the opposition final third asap, then this football we have now is not for them. There is no way such people would see our game now as an improvement.

 

[tim cahill]

Well, I'll take a wild leap into the unknown and hazard a guess that the OP's pov (when it arrives) will be to state that there is 'no improvements'.

As for the debate itself: if people want the semi-agricultural football of getting the ball into the opposition final third asap, then this football we have now is not for them. There is no way such people would see our game now as an improvement.

Oh come on! I know you weren't his biggest fan but that isn't what moyes was about. We were probably more creative in the final 3rd than we are now and we bossed the midfield against most teams. We were more direct than we are now but that isn't necessarily a bad thing. It was his tactics in the bigger games that let moyes down the most.

 

[Blue Cheese]

Hard to judge really because his 2 seasons have been such polar opposites. What I do feel is the hardships of this year will hopefully have taught him some valuable lessons moving forward.

 

[davek]

Oh come on! I know you weren't his biggest fan but that isn't what moyes was about. We were probably more creative in the final 3rd than we are now and we bossed the midfield against most teams. We were more direct than we are now but that isn't necessarily a bad thing. It was his tactics in the bigger games that let moyes down the most.

Dont let the mists of time cloud your judgement of Moyes. We all recognised when he was here that he was very limited as a manager. He was a one trick pony who used first Cahill and then Fellaini as an auxiliary striker to load up the numbers in and around the opposition box where they'd feed off long diagonal balls pumped from the halfway line. The red herring counter argument usually trailed out at this stage is to point to the work of Baines/Pienaar on the left. But that was not our main line of approach play. And the distribution out of defence was an utter embarrassment at times.

 

[Groucho]

The thing is, I can see what Martinez is trying to do, but the question is, do our players have the confidence to pull it off? Do we need better players to make it work?

The individual errors that have cost us, and that's what it's mainly been, happen very rarely to confident players. Some of our players are good enough (others aren't, let's be honest) for this to work, but they lack the confidence in their ability. That's been the key difference from this season to last, don't ask me why. Teams with the same players don't simply become garbage overnight. The lack of urgency we seem to have had sporadically? Well....

Essentially, he wants us to play total football, and I think the players are on board, but lack the self-belief. We're we in a wave of confidence from 'new manager syndrome' last year, and has Moyes' 'play it safe' ethos come back in their minds when results have taken a dip this year, destroying confidence? That would suggest Martinez is trying to improve but Moyes' longevity here and mindset is holding us back. Perhaps not.

Who am I jivin' with this Cosmik Debris?

 

[tim cahill]

Dont let the mists of time cloud your judgement of Moyes. We all recognised when he was here that he was very limited as a manager. He was a one trick pony who used first Cahill and then Fellaini as an auxiliary striker to load up the numbers in and around the opposition box where they'd feed off long diagonal balls pumped from the halfway line. The red herring counter argument usually trailed out at this stage is to point to the work of Baines/Pienaar on the left. But that was not our main line of approach play. And the distribution out of defence was an utter embarrassment at times.

Nonsense. You had that opinion but many didn't. He lost his determination in his last few years years here and he had to go but before that we played a lot of good football. Moyes didn't have the luxury of spending £28m on a striker and so Fellaini and Cahill were the best options we had at the time.

 

[Fresh Prince of Belle Val]

Have to judge it on his signings really. Kone and Alcaraz - awful. Lukaku, McCarthy, Barry - great. Besic, McGeady, Robles - To be decided. Eto'o - was an honour to watch, but not the best move for the team.

Loans - Del, Lennon - good. Atsu, Traore - bad.

Plus he's made Stones and Barkley first team regulars and Garbutt has broke through as a decent understudy should be stay.

I'd say 2 good signings this summer without losing anybody and we have definitely improved the squad.

Our defending as a team has got worse, plus set pieces both attacking and defending them has worsened. We don't seem to have the mental strength that we did under Moyes either.

Next season will show exactly what we can offer.