Ignorance?

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see, I'm coming from a different angle (calm, chico, my sweet) .. I understand that we need to do something, but surely the £150M we're going to have to find for Kirkby is starting to get near the cost of doing over GP... without the trauma of trying to get out there every saturday with the flottila of restrictions to traffic and parking that Tesco and the residents of Kirkby will (quite rightly) insist on.

I'm trying to be entirely objective about the issue, and too much of the proposal doesn't add up... and we're still waiting on proper hard facts... I'm disappointed and preturbed... when the idea was first floated, i was bang up for it... but the way in which matters have been conducted gives me no confidence whatsoever.

I personally wasn't convinced by Bill's assertions after the AGM... during the AGM the board admitted to not having read the HOK Report, for example (this being the board that has 'exhausted every avenue') shoddy and slapdash and out for the easy answer... I've seen projects run this way before, and the outcome's never pretty.
 

Here we go again those worms are well and truly out of the can again.

Lets look at the facts:

We need a new ground
To rebuild Goodison would cost 100's of millions.
Where would we play when goodison was being redeveloped?
Who would pay for the rebuilding of goodison?

Same questions different day.

I like 100% of other Evertonians do not want to leave Goodison BUT we cannot sit on our ass and wait for the old girl to collapse- I believe it wont be long before it fails its annual safety test that any sporting venue needs to pass yearly- what happens then?! Cease to trade??!

Its difficult but when you have a deliverable project that can generate income both on match days and non match days we need to take it. The fans are the heart beat of our club and no one will ever take our history away from us.
 
micknick said:
Here we go again those worms are well and truly out of the can again.

Lets look at the facts:

We need a new ground
To rebuild Goodison would cost 100's of millions.
Where would we play when goodison was being redeveloped?
Who would pay for the rebuilding of goodison?

Same questions different day.

I like 100% of other Evertonians do not want to leave Goodison BUT we cannot sit on our ass and wait for the old girl to collapse- I believe it wont be long before it fails its annual safety test that any sporting venue needs to pass yearly- what happens then?! Cease to trade??!

Its difficult but when you have a deliverable project that can generate income both on match days and non match days we need to take it. The fans are the heart beat of our club and no one will ever take our history away from us.
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Newcastle managed to do it mate.

You see, we are all blinded by the pretty pictures and the promise of luxuries. Me included at one point. But there is no evidence to say no we can't rebuild Goodison.

We have this man who only shows his face when Everton are doing well and tries to appease the fans. I just think he financially can't build Goodison back to what it was. So if he can't then we need someone else who can.

Also Mick, who says we are going to fail the safety checks? The club? Are this board to be trusted? Have they earned out trust?
 
GhostOfDixie said:
Also Mick, who says we are going to fail the safety checks? The club? Are this board to be trusted? Have they earned out trust?
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I work for a venue as a venue manager I see these safety tests first hand, they are pretty stringent as you would need to be to have 30k+ people in one area at the same time.

Goodison for all its charisma, character and history is falling down and out dated. As a revenue income the Emirates stadium made £10m on non match day events- Goodsion recently won an award for excellence standards in conference and events due to the catering and delivery BUT if we were to have a new stadium I feel we would at least match Arsenals £10m a year- nive income stream.

We need a new stadium by hook or by crook we need one asap. If we got a big wad of cash and a project that meant Goodison could be redeveloped then I'd say go for it. But we cannot wait for a sugar daddy something needs to be done now.
 

Another difficulty that I suspect most here don't want to admit is that we're not a regular Champions League side. The very best stadia around the world generally house Champions League football due to the increased finances available to fund the development and the increased demand for tickets.

If we're being brutally realistic, are some people simply being too optimistic with their ambitions for the new stadium?
 
They played at St James non-stop and funded the development by floating on the stock exchange.

Everton tried to do this but had to back down due to furious claims of the club's soul being sold to the devil*







*this may or may not have actually happened.
 
toffeestillidie said:
do you have any more info about the revitalizing of st james park? i don't know much about it or how it went, where they played in between etc.
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I think they are still rebuilding. Kind of doing a Man U. One side at a time.

We need cash for a new stadium, we need cash for our own stadium. There are just too many dodgy goings on with this Kirkby Project, and the boards response to some tough questioning is testament to that.
 

In fairness Ghost I dont think the distrust of Kenwright is a warranted. We have a good blue as a chairman who bailed us out after Johnson tried his best to run us under.

And as for KEIOC taking the stance that they want to keep us in in the city? Thats complete and utter turd, Kirkby is as scouse as anywhere else in the city and invisible boundaries have been jumped on by a bunch of people with [Poor language removed] all else to do, they loving the attention and if the club went into the ground if a move failed to materialise then Im not so sure they would be hogging the limelight.

My preference would be this:

1 - Redevelop Goodison
2 - Find a suitable move and funding where we would be damage the team. If its Kirkby then so be it.

'Good-ison for Everton' soon [Poor language removed] off and werent to be heard of again, yet in hindsight we can admit that the move to the Kings Dock would have been boss. See, the fan groups are not always right.

Dont forget, the club went balloted the fans won the mandate. Let democracy run its course.
 
chicoazul said:
In fairness Ghost I dont think the distrust of Kenwright is a warranted. We have a good blue as a chairman who bailed us out after Johnson tried his best to run us under.

And as for KEIOC taking the stance that they want to keep us in in the city? Thats complete and utter turd, Kirkby is as scouse as anywhere else in the city and invisible boundaries have been jumped on by a bunch of people with [Poor language removed] all else to do, they loving the attention and if the club went into the ground if a move failed to materialise then Im not so sure they would be hogging the limelight.

My preference would be this:

1 - Redevelop Goodison
2 - Find a suitable move and funding where we would be damage the team. If its Kirkby then so be it.

'Good-ison for Everton' soon [Poor language removed] off and werent to be heard of again, yet in hindsight we can admit that the move to the Kings Dock would have been boss. See, the fan groups are not always right.

Dont forget, the club went balloted the fans won the mandate. Let democracy run its course.
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Well I just find it wrong that he only speaks on the back of good results.

They only asked fans who were season ticket holders, which is wrong. That's saying that nobody else gets a say. They also ran a propoganda campaign using our own players to force the issue. In opposition to this, players and managers like Kendall and Ferguson have spoken out against the move.

Now are they in the know? Is Cahill or Arteta in the know? Well then if they are not, then they need to stick to playing football and let the experts decide. Now Kenwright isn't an expert and neither is Wyness, so are we supposed to go along with what they say?

Why hasn't there been a more ruthless discussion about increasing the footprint at GP? People are going to be turfed out at Kirkby for the new stadium, so what's the difference at GP?

But what I don't like is the "We've already decided it" attitude that seems to be blatantly clear between the lines.

Hand on heart, nobody wants to leave GP. But nobody is doing anything about it.
 
GhostOfDixie said:
? what?
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I used to have shares in Newcastle. Shocking investment. Thankfully the oddbod from Sporting Direct wanted to waste his money on them and stopped me from doing so.

As for the stadium, this issue reminds me of many things currently happening in the environment sector. Energy for instance, everyone wants the silver bullet that does everything for everyone. So wind gets mentioned but people shout out that it ruins views or doesn't provide good returns. Nuclear provides great energy but the economics are fragile and the waste an issue. Solar is great but its costly at the moment. Wave, well we have plenty of waves but the technology is new. And so talks go around and around, each party banging down the other, no one making a decision because it's liable to piss somebody off, and still the pressing need for new energy sources, be it for energy security or climate change reasons, looms ever larger.

This is exactly the same. We need to move stadiums, we really do and the sooner the better, yet everyone keeps regurgitating the same old arguments over and over again delaying the project time after time after time. Goodison never gets anything done to it because a new stadium is 'just around the corner'. And so we get into a vicious circle. If Kenwright is making a stand on this then good for him. Any large decision such as this will piss some people off, it's inevitable but someone somewhere has to make this difficult decision.
 
I dont believe that Kenwright only comes out after good results pal, I used to speak to him regularly in the mid 90s due to my work and I can assure you he is a cracking bloke who bleeds blue. Its all he ever does, every conversation turns to Everton. He is the type of person I want running our club, we've broke our transfer record three times in the last three years mate.

Its inevitable that there would be some spin regarding the move, just as KEIOC decided to fly a plane over the ground on more than one occasion and publised pictures of hooliganism to Kirkby residents. Can you honestly say that by Cahill or Johnson coming out in support of the move that it would sway anyone to vote yes? Everyone who voted, including Evertonia members aswell pal - not just season ticket holders, had the chance to make up their own mind and consider the implications of voting yes or no.

And no local residents are getting turfed out for the new ground move, its land given free by Knowsley Council - after LCC have bowed down to the redshite and given up Stanley Park.

Still, I would love to stay at Goodison and you raised a good point about the St James Park redevelopment.
 

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