... should McClaren be sacked?
Personally... I think so.
Personally... I think so.
If/When England Fail To Qualify...
- Thread starter GrandOldTeam
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Im taking a bit of time out from playing, I could do the job I reckon.
Who would you replace him with? No English manager has won the league since Howard Wilkinson.
GhostOfDixie
Player Valuation: £70m
No English manager has won the FA Cup since Joe Royle. What does that prove?
McClaren will not walk, there is no way that will happen.
McClaren will not get sacked, the FA won't do anything unless they have someone like Mourinho primed for the role.
Kind of brings me back to the identity of our great nation. I mean for [Poor language removed]'s sake our leaders for the past decade have been Scottish.
I think we should scour the Yorkshire dales for a good honest Englishman. Takes no [Poor language removed], wears a string vest for bed, drinks Yorkshire Tea and eats a bit of Parkin cake for afternoon tea.
Has four Yorkshire's with real gravy on a Sunday. Still takes a rattle to the game and thinks real ale is best served at room temperature.
Someone like that games teacher on Kes.
McClaren will not walk, there is no way that will happen.
McClaren will not get sacked, the FA won't do anything unless they have someone like Mourinho primed for the role.
Kind of brings me back to the identity of our great nation. I mean for [Poor language removed]'s sake our leaders for the past decade have been Scottish.
I think we should scour the Yorkshire dales for a good honest Englishman. Takes no [Poor language removed], wears a string vest for bed, drinks Yorkshire Tea and eats a bit of Parkin cake for afternoon tea.
Has four Yorkshire's with real gravy on a Sunday. Still takes a rattle to the game and thinks real ale is best served at room temperature.
Someone like that games teacher on Kes.
GhostOfDixie
Player Valuation: £70m
My mate actually applied for the job when El Tel got sacked. Got a reply too. Suffice to say he never got invited to an interview but a thanks for applying.
I applied for the Everton job after Royle left. Didn't get an interview either. Oh how differently things could have been.
Maybe they could take Austria's place.
10,000 Austrians have signed a petition asking that the football team be withdrawn from the competition because they are so pitiful - they're not wrong, either. Having said that, they may well go haywire and thrash England - me, I'm just worried about J-Lo on the wrong end of some of the industrial tackling.
Should McLaren be sacked? Yes, but don't think he should ever have been there in the first place. Anyone is on a hiding to nothing with the players and their attitude at the moment, though.
10,000 Austrians have signed a petition asking that the football team be withdrawn from the competition because they are so pitiful - they're not wrong, either. Having said that, they may well go haywire and thrash England - me, I'm just worried about J-Lo on the wrong end of some of the industrial tackling.
Should McLaren be sacked? Yes, but don't think he should ever have been there in the first place. Anyone is on a hiding to nothing with the players and their attitude at the moment, though.
In many ways it's a serious problem though. There is much talk about a lack of young English players coming through but how many young English managers are out there?
If you look at the leading clubs there is an overwhelming trend for managers to have not been world class players. Mourinho, Wenger, Benithez, Eriksson. None were any good as players. Even the likes of Ferguson and Moyes failed to set the world alight as players. Yet whenever a managerial vacancy in the lower reaches of the division comes up its always the same names bandied about (Souness, Hoddle, Reid, Bruce, Dowie....), people that have never been any good at managing, yet they continue to get jobs.
Maybe something that many of the other names mentioned have is the willingness to go abroad to further their education. Mourinho no doubt learnt a lot at Barcelona under Robson. Wenger spent a few seasons in Japan before joining Arsenal. Sven has managed in most of the top leagues around Europe.
Contrast that with the typical British route of play - retire- manage with no experience of 'real' life, probably no experience of working in different cultures. It doesn't help that the PL are so lax with the rules, allowing the likes of Grant and Southgate to manage even without the relevant qualifications.
If you look at the leading clubs there is an overwhelming trend for managers to have not been world class players. Mourinho, Wenger, Benithez, Eriksson. None were any good as players. Even the likes of Ferguson and Moyes failed to set the world alight as players. Yet whenever a managerial vacancy in the lower reaches of the division comes up its always the same names bandied about (Souness, Hoddle, Reid, Bruce, Dowie....), people that have never been any good at managing, yet they continue to get jobs.
Maybe something that many of the other names mentioned have is the willingness to go abroad to further their education. Mourinho no doubt learnt a lot at Barcelona under Robson. Wenger spent a few seasons in Japan before joining Arsenal. Sven has managed in most of the top leagues around Europe.
Contrast that with the typical British route of play - retire- manage with no experience of 'real' life, probably no experience of working in different cultures. It doesn't help that the PL are so lax with the rules, allowing the likes of Grant and Southgate to manage even without the relevant qualifications.
GhostOfDixie
Player Valuation: £70m
Well do you not think this just highlights the problem of a lack of identity in this country?
We have English managers at youth level, if it wasn't for them then Rooney and the like would never develop into the players they are now. Why can't these managers do it at the higher level? Well you imagine an English manager going into the Arsenal dressing room and trying to speak to them? I've heard that French was the language that was spoken in that dressing room, and English was second, but only for the players who don't speak French (Hleb, Rosicky)
That isn't right. For a club that is supposed to be at the bedrock of British football. Besides Everton is the longest serving top flight club. Yet it is about as English as Vinny Jones is Welsh.
So why? Well Sky have to take the blame. They pump in that much money that clubs attract players from abroad, and then managers from abroad. Then we have managers who don't buy English players because it suits them to buy players that speak a language that allows them to converse easily.
Benitez and Spanish, Wenger and French.
Then comes the emergence of African nations and the fact that you can pick these super-athletes up for a bag of beans and turn them into world beaters.
Now to answer the callers question. How many young English managers are out there? Not many, too few to mention.
We have one guy who is too honest that nobody will touch him. Mike Newell. Totally unemployable, yet I think he has the potential to be a top manager. But is there room for him at the big clubs? Fact is most owners are not willing to risk young English managers when they can bring in foreign coach's who have proved themselves at top clubs in Europe (not england, europe). Pay them 5m (Spurs + Ramos) a year, with no guarantee that he will turn it around. Not even money guarantees that. Look at Raneiri.
But when most owners are becoming foreign now, why would they even look at people like Mike Newell, Aidy Boothroyd, Paul Jewell, Dennis Wise.
Spurs are a prime example of constantly getting it wrong. They even made the wrong decision when they get rid of Jol, I happen to think he was a good manager, but was not a great one, but his job was made 10 times harder by the inappropriate behaviour of his superiors.
Also a big decision in appointing managers is the players they can attract. David Moyes would not fall into that category, he was a big punt, a suprising one, but a big punt none the less. He's now established and can attract quality, but that was self-development.
Ramos can attract pretty much anyone in the Spanish League.
Wigan are failing to see what is needed to maintain good managerial teams. They fail to give Bruce a contract so he [Poor language removed] off. They give their last manager 3 months? And now they are clamouring for Bruce again.
One manager I think is good, is English and has done well in the Premiership, and that's Steve Coppell. I think he will develop into a great manager if he keeps Reading up this year.
We have English managers at youth level, if it wasn't for them then Rooney and the like would never develop into the players they are now. Why can't these managers do it at the higher level? Well you imagine an English manager going into the Arsenal dressing room and trying to speak to them? I've heard that French was the language that was spoken in that dressing room, and English was second, but only for the players who don't speak French (Hleb, Rosicky)
That isn't right. For a club that is supposed to be at the bedrock of British football. Besides Everton is the longest serving top flight club. Yet it is about as English as Vinny Jones is Welsh.
So why? Well Sky have to take the blame. They pump in that much money that clubs attract players from abroad, and then managers from abroad. Then we have managers who don't buy English players because it suits them to buy players that speak a language that allows them to converse easily.
Benitez and Spanish, Wenger and French.
Then comes the emergence of African nations and the fact that you can pick these super-athletes up for a bag of beans and turn them into world beaters.
Now to answer the callers question. How many young English managers are out there? Not many, too few to mention.
We have one guy who is too honest that nobody will touch him. Mike Newell. Totally unemployable, yet I think he has the potential to be a top manager. But is there room for him at the big clubs? Fact is most owners are not willing to risk young English managers when they can bring in foreign coach's who have proved themselves at top clubs in Europe (not england, europe). Pay them 5m (Spurs + Ramos) a year, with no guarantee that he will turn it around. Not even money guarantees that. Look at Raneiri.
But when most owners are becoming foreign now, why would they even look at people like Mike Newell, Aidy Boothroyd, Paul Jewell, Dennis Wise.
Spurs are a prime example of constantly getting it wrong. They even made the wrong decision when they get rid of Jol, I happen to think he was a good manager, but was not a great one, but his job was made 10 times harder by the inappropriate behaviour of his superiors.
Also a big decision in appointing managers is the players they can attract. David Moyes would not fall into that category, he was a big punt, a suprising one, but a big punt none the less. He's now established and can attract quality, but that was self-development.
Ramos can attract pretty much anyone in the Spanish League.
Wigan are failing to see what is needed to maintain good managerial teams. They fail to give Bruce a contract so he [Poor language removed] off. They give their last manager 3 months? And now they are clamouring for Bruce again.
One manager I think is good, is English and has done well in the Premiership, and that's Steve Coppell. I think he will develop into a great manager if he keeps Reading up this year.
Again there, how many English coaches try their luck abroad? Chris Coleman has gone to Sociedad and no doubt if he does well there his skills and reputation will have been greatly enhanced. Venables and Robson have both managed abroad. Hodgson had a successful career coaching abroad.
Where are those people now? The likes of Platt and Ince have both stated that they wouldn't mind coaching abroad but then both integrated well during their time in Italy and are fluent in the language and culture there. It comes back to broadening horizons again.
Look at Everton for instance. We've struggled at times in Europe because we're simply not used to playing the European way. The Premier league isn't good grounding for the international game and if managers/players don't play in Europe, either by competing in European competition or moving abroad, then how will they ever learn?
Where are those people now? The likes of Platt and Ince have both stated that they wouldn't mind coaching abroad but then both integrated well during their time in Italy and are fluent in the language and culture there. It comes back to broadening horizons again.
Look at Everton for instance. We've struggled at times in Europe because we're simply not used to playing the European way. The Premier league isn't good grounding for the international game and if managers/players don't play in Europe, either by competing in European competition or moving abroad, then how will they ever learn?
SuitsBlue
Player Valuation: £50m
i know what you caught up with recently.
SuitsBlue
Player Valuation: £50m
media pressure has to take some responsibility, recall the clamour for stuart pearces appointment.
also, consider how much football is televised now, commentator and pundit jobs have never been in such supply, and the fight to get on tv and earn tv money instead of putting a reputation on the line in management has never been greater.
there was talk of shearer making the step up.
heres a point, players must realise like fans clearly do that money dictates success - so lets say a relatively successful player like shearer fancied management but a position at a so called top 4 side wasnt available, would he or anyone else fancy the challenge of managing on a budget.
bruce mentions managers earning a crust abroad and expanding their experience and knowledge on that stage, but shouldnt a manager earn his keep at least for a while in the lower leagues just to get to grips with the basics? imagine a first time manager trying to get it right in france or germany, with no idea of the structure and the day to day of a club at management level coupled with the language and culture barrier.
its worth noting mourinho was robsons interpreter at barca.
as for italy and platt and ince, i'd think twice about getting embroiled in the ''cultural dealings'' associated with football there. players might be exempt in terms of corruption, but managers and club owners had to be in the know.
how will managers in britain ever learn to play in europe? by getting their side euro qualification and actual on field experience. ferguson had to get hammered a few times in the CL before his core players could cope.
also, consider how much football is televised now, commentator and pundit jobs have never been in such supply, and the fight to get on tv and earn tv money instead of putting a reputation on the line in management has never been greater.
there was talk of shearer making the step up.
heres a point, players must realise like fans clearly do that money dictates success - so lets say a relatively successful player like shearer fancied management but a position at a so called top 4 side wasnt available, would he or anyone else fancy the challenge of managing on a budget.
bruce mentions managers earning a crust abroad and expanding their experience and knowledge on that stage, but shouldnt a manager earn his keep at least for a while in the lower leagues just to get to grips with the basics? imagine a first time manager trying to get it right in france or germany, with no idea of the structure and the day to day of a club at management level coupled with the language and culture barrier.
its worth noting mourinho was robsons interpreter at barca.
as for italy and platt and ince, i'd think twice about getting embroiled in the ''cultural dealings'' associated with football there. players might be exempt in terms of corruption, but managers and club owners had to be in the know.
how will managers in britain ever learn to play in europe? by getting their side euro qualification and actual on field experience. ferguson had to get hammered a few times in the CL before his core players could cope.
GhostOfDixie
Player Valuation: £70m
Bollocks to Bisto!
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