If Kenwright lowered the asking price...

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

The way to make money out of footballing clubs is to buy them and then sell them to someone else.

Hardly anyone actually makes profits out of them on a regular basis. And if they did, the only way to do it, outside of owning man u or real, given the way prize fees come nowhere near watching wage bills, would be to take over a club with a big fan base and invest just enough in the squad that they'll finish about 17th and keep getting the top flight tv money but no more than that.

No, that's one way of making money out of a football club, not the only way.

I've given an example there as to how a snake oil salesman could buy EFC for effectively nothing, by asset stripping the club.

 

[Dell Boy]

Ask Bill mate, he's the one who said they went past due diligence and then they discovered the guy lived in a bedsit.

Exactly. Here's the full piece:

"Bill went on to tell a story concerning Keith Harris; he’d put forward two guys who, in his opinion, were suitable potential owners of Everton Football Club. Harris claimed the two guys controlled a hedge fund; one was the head of ICI in the Far East and a second an inventor. They conducted due diligence and Everton were ready to sign an agreement when Bill smelt a rat; investigators discovered that ICI had never heard of the person concerned, he actually lived in one bedroom flat, and the second guy, the inventor, was based in Manchester."
For me at least that reflects worse on Keith Harris than it does Bill.

 

[Allezfan]

No, that's one way of making money out of a football club, not the only way.

I've given an example there as to how a snake oil salesman could buy EFC for effectively nothing, by asset stripping the club.

But in your example they wouldn't actually be making any money.

 

[sheeds]

Exactly. Here's the full piece:

"Bill went on to tell a story concerning Keith Harris; he’d put forward two guys who, in his opinion, were suitable potential owners of Everton Football Club. Harris claimed the two guys controlled a hedge fund; one was the head of ICI in the Far East and a second an inventor. They conducted due diligence and Everton were ready to sign an agreement when Bill smelt a rat; investigators discovered that ICI had never heard of the person concerned, he actually lived in one bedroom flat, and the second guy, the inventor, was based in Manchester."
For me at least that reflects worse on Keith Harris than it does Bill.

For me that story just reeks of "aren't I great and there are bad prople out there " almost "reds under the bed" if you know what I mean ? There is an incredibly similar story about Murray at rangers except his deal is ready to sign and their all in a hotel but he 'just didn't feel right ' . The fact that murray willing sold to Craig whyte rubbishes his account and I wouldn't call bill a liar but I've got a few doubts about the truthfulness of that particular account .

That's all just speculation on my behalf though I could be completely wrong and it's just my cynical nature .

 

[Allezfan]

For me that story just reeks of "aren't I great and there are bad prople out there " almost "reds under the bed" if you know what I mean ? There is an incredibly similar story about Murray at rangers except his deal is ready to sign and their all in a hotel but he 'just didn't feel right ' . The fact that murray willing sold to Craig whyte rubbishes his account and I wouldn't call bill a liar but I've got a few doubts about the truthfulness of that particular account .

That's all just speculation on my behalf though I could be completely wrong and it's just my cynical nature .

Oh, sheeds. You are one of the best posters on here, by a mile.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

But in your example they wouldn't actually be making any money.

They have gained a 100% equity stake in a PL club for £0

 

[Allezfan]

They have gained a 100% equity stake in a PL club for £0

A pl club that was making a loss over a normal year and has just sold 50 million pounds of players so will be in danger of relegation and losing half it's income, but yeah sure.

So the money they'd make would be by selling it, having bought it for free?

 

[teameverton]

To me this seems to be the biggest reason that we haven't been bought and you can't really deny it.

If the asking price was £50-£75 Million, would our chances of investment be a lot greater?

You obviously have not been to Goodison for a hell of a long time mate!

 

[steken1]

You missed my point entirely. You posted a piece suggesting that the club should be valued at £80M including the debt, so in other words £25M for the equity.

I buy it for £25M, lumping the debt onto the balance sheet in a leveraged purchase. I then sell £50M of first team players, replacing them with £25M of cheaper alternatives, clearing £25M net in the process. I then clear the leveraged debt, thus paying for my equity with assets off the clubs balance sheet.

Isn't that what's happened already? The valuation may be low but the same could be said at £125m as minus debt your left with around 80m to find. Problem is you'd be left with a side in serious danger of relegation and subsequently administration. That leaves you with nothing more than a gamble for the hell of it as you only broke even in the first place.

If one the day you bought the club Felliani broke his leg and Baines done his hamstring you'd be left with a squad of little value with a struggle to make your money back with players on very high contracts.

Players are just as likely to be viewed as liabilities as assets considering what they earn and take up in resources.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

A pl club that was making a loss over a normal year and has just sold 50 million pounds of players so will be in danger of relegation and losing half it's income, but yeah sure.

So the money they'd make would be by selling it, having bought it for free?

It'd have just bought £25M of players as well, so don't make out it's way beyond the realms of possibility, as it isn't.

They could sell if for a tenner & make a profit in that scenario, but they wouldn't have to sell it, they could leave the leveraged purchase debt in place & take the profit from player sales as a dividend. Either way, it's merely a pedantic avoidance of the simple point I was making.

 

[Allezfan]

It'd have just bought £25M of players as well, so don't make out it's way beyond the realms of possibility, as it isn't.

They could sell if for a tenner & make a profit in that scenario, but they wouldn't have to sell it, they could leave the leveraged purchase debt in place & take the profit from player sales as a dividend. Either way, it's merely a pedantic avoidance of the simple point I was making.

It would take them eleven years before they'd find someone willing to give them that tenner, though.

 

[steken1]

Guess that's just it, there have been many more bad buyers than there have been good. Really we've only seen the City owners and Abramovich.

Given the uproar over di Canio you'd imagine both of those owners could be called into question for their behaviours and personal opinions as well, what with human rights issues in Qatar and Abramovich's shady links to Putin.

It's just my belief but I don't think you'll get to a relative wealth needed to own a PL club without a few skeletons in the closet.

I think we've seen a lot of owners pump money into clubs over the last 5 or 10 years. That's all we have been asking for. It's hard to comment on how much better them clubs are doing off the pitch etc as our focus is usually on Everton, or some cases, Villa.

 

[Chang Elephant]

If the talks went past due dilingence, then surely we would now be owned by a guy in a bedsit. The same guy that was brought into the whole process of selling the club, the very people that BUnion are proposing we leave all our selling too, was infact the person responsible. Kenwright didn't invite this person in for an offer. He was invited in by Keith Harris. It was only when Kenwright got involved that he "smelt a rat" and did some digging to find out that the person in question had no links whatsoever to ICI and did infact, live in a one bed flat.

Pretty sure you'd enjoy this book Jacko

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

Isn't that what's happened already? The valuation may be low but the same could be said at £125m as minus debt your left with around 80m to find. Problem is you'd be left with a side in serious danger of relegation and subsequently administration. That leaves you with nothing more than a gamble for the hell of it as you only broke even in the first place.

If one the day you bought the club Felliani broke his leg and Baines done his hamstring you'd be left with a squad of little value with a struggle to make your money back with players on very high contracts.

Players are just as likely to be viewed as liabilities as assets considering what they earn and take up in resources.

No it's not already happened. Kenwright & Co haven't asset stripped the intangible assets, the only asset they've liquidated is Bellefield, which has been swallowed by operational losses.

I gave that example to show how if you were Kenwright & Co you'd never sell for £25M plus the debt as per your previous suggestion, as you'd be giving someone the opportunity to profit at your expense.

I also don't agree that Fellaini for example could be viewed as a liability given that his book value will be almost zero by now & his market value £25-30M - your only risk is serious injury, but that's why they have insurance.

 

[Ihaters]

It's just my belief but I don't think you'll get to a relative wealth needed to own a PL club without a few skeletons in the closet.

I think we've seen a lot of owners pump money into clubs over the last 5 or 10 years. That's all we have been asking for. It's hard to comment on how much better them clubs are doing off the pitch etc as our focus is usually on Everton, or some cases, Villa.

It helps a lot but I want the owners to hire the correct manager as well, that is one of their most important responsibilities.

I'd rather be us than QPR, Villa, Newcastle, Sunderland, Stoke or anyone else that finishes regularly below us whilst spending money.
Hell even City when they had Hughes were s**t. The manager is as important as the money.. We need both.
I'd hate to be taken over, bin 50mil on players, and then go down because we got in Tony Adams to manage them.