If Kenwright lowered the asking price...

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Firstly there is only hearsay to say the asking price is. £125m. But even if it was we don't know the conditions or terms of sale let. Alone what price would actually be accepted.

The stadium is not the big issue. Goodison will be fine for next 5 years at least.

Need to look at what the projected net. Profit will be next year with the new TV deal.

Then apply a sensible multiple to this. IF the net profit is say £20m then an earnings ration of 5 might be correct

In my opinion the price isn't the main issue. If it was then we'd have had people knocking at the door in recent years.

There's a massive recession on.
 
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Firstly there is only hearsay to say the asking price is. £125m. But even if it was we don't know the conditions or terms of sale let. Alone what price would actually be accepted.

The stadium is not the big issue. Goodison will be fine for next 5 years at least.

Need to look at what the projected net. Profit will be next year with the new TV deal.

Then apply a sensible multiple to this. IF the net profit is say £20m then an earnings ration of 5 might be correct

In my opinion the price isn't the main issue. If it was then we'd have had people knocking at the door in recent years.

There's a massive recession on.

A man once employed by the club to sell it and a club official on a national radio station both gave the price. It's not hearsay in any way, shape or form. Wrong

The stadium is a massive issue as it negatively impacts the amount of revenue we can generate per game. Wrong

Projected net profit. The new TV deals are estimated to be worth around £25-30m per club per season. We have a £13m shortfall which we use the Vibrac bridging loan for. We also lost £5m last year. We also generally sell one of our better players each season without re-investing all the funds which helps keep our losses low. so £!3m + £5m + not selling a player from our already depleted squad would leave us at around break even or £0. Mulitply that by 5.

Then if it's price and it's not the stadium it's the recession.

http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk...-everton-fc-owners-this-week-100252-33081476/

I just wonder how many clubs have changed hands during the course of this recession?
 
I have to ask, why if he knows nobody is buying football clus is he not lowering the supposed asking price?
 

A man once employed by the club to sell it and a club official on a national radio station both gave the price. It's not hearsay in any way, shape or form. Wrong

It is absolutely hearsay! Oxford English definition: "Information received from other people that cannot be adequately substantiated". All you have is a broker and an unamed 'source'. No official confirmation but more importantly no detail of any of the terms and conditions. It is hearsay.

The stadium is a massive issue as it negatively impacts the amount of revenue we can generate per game. Wrong

The club has a present day value and an enterprise value going forward. The stadium impacts the latter not the former.

Projected net profit. The new TV deals are estimated to be worth around £25-30m per club per season. We have a £13m shortfall which we use the Vibrac bridging loan for. We also lost £5m last year. We also generally sell one of our better players each season without re-investing all the funds which helps keep our losses low. so £!3m + £5m + not selling a player from our already depleted squad would leave us at around break even or £0. Mulitply that by 5.

Didn't we post a loss last season of £7m? Something like that. Add in the extra TV cash and you get a straight line projection. At approx. £20m net that's not to be sniffed at. Especially given the wider, intangible benefits of running a club in the Premier League in terms of PR etc (who now hasn't heard of a chicken farming family in India!).

The Vibrac loan is in the accounts isn't it? Therefore it's impact is already addressed in the net profit calculation.

Buying/selling players is part of the enterprise calculation. In just the same way I could turn it around and say you could sell Fellaini and add £20m to the asking price.
 
Stadium build of minimum £80M (if you can find partners to shoulder the burden and you get a good naming rights deal) + almost circa £50M debt + paying off / sitting out to expiration existing rubbish commercial contracts *negotiated* by the old regime = anything above £50M for shares and we wont get sold.

Basically they're looking for an oil sheik or Russian oligarch who have completely lost their minds to cough up the money they are trying to extort.

Said it for years: Bill Kenwright and John Houlding - the two biggest con men and villains in Everton's history. Both will be hated equally by all when history is written, mark my words.
 
I want Everton to be bought by someone who is successful and ambitious, and buys Everton with the intention of awakening it as a the "sleeping giant" it is.
I don't want it to be bought by some Balkan politically appointed recipient of billions in the market for a toy to impress his friends with. I don't want some Tony Fernandez Football Manager lite project.
I want someone with Everton at heart first. Doesn't have to be a fan, but I want a person who understands (or is willing to understand) the club, its history, and has the finances and acumen to push us onward and upward.
Anyone that can't afford the 125m won't really be able to do this as far as I'm concerned. Just another Chicken Farmer.
 
Stadium build of minimum £80M (if you can find partners to shoulder the burden and you get a good naming rights deal) + almost circa £50M debt + paying off / sitting out to expiration existing rubbish commercial contracts *negotiated* by the old regime = anything above £50M for shares and we wont get sold.

I would happily look at a piecemeal upgrade of Goodison. In a stagnant economy I am doubtful of the merits of any new stadium project for Everton given how poor the city's economy is. For an ego trip a new owner might want a shiney new stadium but as a standalone project I'm sceptical it could turn a profit.

I know the restricted views are a pain at Goodison but I'd say they only really affect 1,500 seats to the point that they are truly blighted. I remember a game against Sheffield Wednesday years ago I was literally up close and personal to a post the whole game through.

Given thos restrictions we're getting mid-30s from a capacity of say 38k (need to factor in how poor some of the away seating is too). Still need a big jump to 50k although as has been said here many times the facilities in the likes of the Gladwys are shocking.

It's the corporates that's the problem. I just can't see us selling out the necessary thousands of prawn sandwiches to make the project tick.

And funnily enough despite what magicpram says there isn't a wider property/construction play to be had either in L4!

On the price though - say someone came in and offered £50m cash plus some add ons down the years on the drop to take it to closer to £100m (say on the assumption we kept our Premier League status). I'm not sure Kenwright would turn that down.
 
It is absolutely hearsay! Oxford English definition: "Information received from other people that cannot be adequately substantiated". All you have is a broker and an unamed 'source'. No official confirmation but more importantly no detail of any of the terms and conditions. It is hearsay.



The club has a present day value and an enterprise value going forward. The stadium impacts the latter not the former.



Didn't we post a loss last season of £7m? Something like that. Add in the extra TV cash and you get a straight line projection. At approx. £20m net that's not to be sniffed at. Especially given the wider, intangible benefits of running a club in the Premier League in terms of PR etc (who now hasn't heard of a chicken farming family in India!).

The Vibrac loan is in the accounts isn't it? Therefore it's impact is already addressed in the net profit calculation.

Buying/selling players is part of the enterprise calculation. In just the same way I could turn it around and say you could sell Fellaini and add £20m to the asking price.

Adequate substantiation is the man tasked with selling the thing. I wouldn't put my car in the auto-trader without revealing a price. The details are a secret. Before you start your NDA's are worthless pitch why not try to explain why the club has them in place in the first place if that's the case?

The stadia issue is one that every single club in the top flight has addressed. That's why every single club in the top flight has moved, updated or is in the process of doing so, bar one. To say it has no impact on a potential sale is, as usual, ludicrous.

Are you suggesting we continue to borrow £!3m a season and pay almost £2m interest on it so we can work off straight line projections? Without a player sale each year we lose around £20m and pay around £5m in debt interest. New TV deal puts us about even with maybe a nominal profit assuming we don't decide to up our spending to compete with our PL peer group.

You talk like you read the text but didn't understand the words.
 

I want Everton to be bought by someone who is successful and ambitious, and buys Everton with the intention of awakening it as a the "sleeping giant" it is.
I don't want it to be bought by some Balkan politically appointed recipient of billions in the market for a toy to impress his friends with. I don't want some Tony Fernandez Football Manager lite project.
I want someone with Everton at heart first. Doesn't have to be a fan, but I want a person who understands (or is willing to understand) the club, its history, and has the finances and acumen to push us onward and upward.
Anyone that can't afford the 125m won't really be able to do this as far as I'm concerned. Just another Chicken Farmer.

So what your basically saying is that you want a fool who is willing to pay well over the odds for an asset. I'd be sure to remember that when we bid £39m for Jonny Evans.
 
Everton?s impending takeover, or not as the case may be, is the hot topic of discussion amongst Evertonians at the moment. According to Chairman Bill, it is potentially the most protracted asset sale of all time, having been trying to shift his (and his fellow shareholders?) shares for what seems like an eternity.

It?s always about the dough

I?ve been involved in the purchase and sale of private companies for a good few years and, believe me; the complexities of these transactions shouldn?t be underestimated. Putting a structure together that works for all parties, making the tax ?work?, trying to get financing (especially when banks aren?t lending) and negotiating with buyers/sellers (and their lawyers, accountants and bankers) and (heaven forbid) the Government can be a logistical minefield.

However, in my experience, any difficulty can be overcome (yes, even the Government) and the most complex transactions can be executed as long as everyone agrees on one thing: Price. And, for me, herein lies the problem.

I think even the most financially illiterate individuals could come to the conclusion that if Everton was put on the market this afternoon for £1, we would have new owners by tea time, such would be the appetite to own one of the oldest, most prestigious and famous football clubs in the world, currently in a secure position in the most lucrative league in the world (for now).

Following that logic must bring you to the natural conclusion that Everton?s ?fair value? lies somewhere between £1 and the current asking price. You see, the above complexities can delay a sale by six months, maybe a year, but assets that have been ?on the market? for ten years and have not been sold are over valued by the vendor. To borrow an Americanism, it?s ?economics 101?.

The devil is in the detail (valuation)

I?m not going to bore everyone with the finer points of valuation because, to be honest, it?s irrelevant and I?ve already bored you enough. You show me a private company valuation (including one of my own) and I?ll show you why it?s inaccurate. The reason for this is that they are all subjective and built on the architect?s assumptions.

However, two areas that always get focussed on in private sales, without fail, are: The level of debt at the point of sale and the historical lack of capital expenditure.

The reasons for this are that they will both be netted from the total value of the business or ?enterprise value? when arriving at the all important number, the amount of cash that will change hands at completion or ?purchase consideration?.

Leverage: Everybody?s friend except the vendor

Debt (and debt-like-items eg, historical transfer fees outstanding) gets knocked-off the enterprise value because it?s how the vendor has chosen to fund the business expansion (stop laughing at the back). He could have used his own cash (equity) after all.

We don?t know what Everton?s debt is today but at 31 May 2011 it was £47.7M. Let?s be kind and assume that the outstanding debt is now £35M due to player sales (which might not have gone to the bank depending on your choice of newspaper) and wage reductions. I?m also ignoring debt-like-items here as they would only be uncovered during due diligence but I?ve seen buyers try to include onerous finance leases in here too!

That?s a £35M reduction in purchase price before we?ve even started.

The Old Lady

The buyer is acquiring the right to the future cash profits of the business (that?s right, I said profit). This number is always estimated using EBITDA (earnings before interest, tax and amortisation) but after taking the required level capital expenditure into account i.e., all businesses need a certain level of capex and this will impact (reduce) the return a buyer can make on his investment.

Here comes the incumbent shareholders? second issue: There has been no investment in capex since the Park End stand was built with the proceeds of Alan Ball?s sale to Arsenal. This means that a buyer is going to need a large out-flow of post-acquisition cash in order to keep the business in its current state, never mind fund expansion. The buyer will add up the historical level of under-spend and knock it off the purchase price.

To be honest, this number is difficult to estimate for obvious reasons, but the Board has suggested in the past that Goodison needs substantial investment to avoid a safety certificate revocation. Again, let?s be kind and assume that £20m of investment is required to keep Goodison and its limited corporate facilities in working order. Remember, this isn?t money for a new stadium (which might also be needed) it?s money that really should have been spent already.

For those of you thinking I?ve overestimated this number, remember that there has also been significant under-spend on the playing side too. We are effectively renting players.

The final reckoning

You don?t need to be Warren Buffet to see that (based on my rudimentary assessment) a buyer could be looking for a £55M (maybe more) reduction in purchase consideration before even discussing enterprise value i.e., even if you conclude that the business is ?valued? at £80M based on its potential future profits, the outgoing shareholders would only get £25M.

In conclusion, it?s my view that the main reason the club hasn?t been sold to date is price. I don?t really see how it can be anything else.

ps ? I don?t think the value of the business is anywhere near £80M given that all you?re effectively buying is a tired, ageing brand and the right to incur future losses, but that?s a story for another day. Remember that, based on the above, the shareholders need a valuation of £55M to sell the club for £1.
 
Are you suggesting we continue to borrow £!3m a season and pay almost £2m interest on it so we can work off straight line projections? Without a player sale each year we lose around £20m and pay around £5m in debt interest. New TV deal puts us about even with maybe a nominal profit assuming we don't decide to up our spending to compete with our PL peer group.

That's simply not correct. The new TV cash goes straight to the bottom line & therefore takes last years awful loss of £9.1M & puts the club straight into a circa £15M profit situation without doing anything else! Last year was also exceptionally bad, so this years numbers should be better anyway.
 
ps ? I don?t think the value of the business is anywhere near £80M given that all you?re effectively buying is a tired, ageing brand and the right to incur future losses, but that?s a story for another day. Remember that, based on the above, the shareholders need a valuation of £55M to sell the club for £1.

Sorry to do it this way but just focusing on that last paragraph - you're so wrong mate!

Tired brand? Football and the Premier League specifically is the 'hottest' sports brand on the planet. And there's little old Everton with all its history cementing a place in the top 6 with a manager crying out for any type of investment.

A lot of what you post is spot-on and informative but don't completely take the mick.

Rightly or wrongly Kenwright is owning a footy club at exactly the right time to make a decent profit. The game has never been more popular.
 
That's simply not correct. The new TV cash goes straight to the bottom line & therefore takes last years awful loss of £9.1M & puts the club straight into a circa £15M profit situation without doing anything else! Last year was also exceptionally bad, so this years numbers should be better anyway.

We borrow £13m from them to operate through lean periods. If we want to self fund without borrowing that shortfall will need to be made up.
 

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