Heysal and Hillsborough disasters

[Nebbiolo]

Hmmm.

Does anyone else find it a wee bit offensive that Heysal seems to have become airbrushed from the consciousness of a large section of the Liverpool support? To be honest, I'm finding the whole Hillsborough thing a wee bit hypocritical now. There were two disasters involving Liverpool supporters, not just Hillsborough.

Justice for both.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

I disagree with the term justice for Hillsborough. 'Remember the 96' is more adequate as far as I am concerned. Justice, justice for what? for who?

The word justice is more applicable to Heysel

 

[Nebbiolo]

I disagree with the term justice for Hillsborough. 'Remember the 96' is more adequate as far as I am concerned. Justice, justice for what? for who?

The word justice is more applicable to Heysel

If they just made a fuss about both, I'd be okay. But the current fuss being made about the "96" has become almost Dianaesque in its ferocity. Meanwhile, they don't seem to give a stuff about the "39", which were people crushed to death because some of their supporters rioted. It's wrong.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

BBC News | UK | The Heysel disaster

No plaque commemorates the 1985 horror, and the only reminder of that time is a reconditioned gateway near the main entrance, the last remnant of the original stadium.

Albeit subtly, The BBC agree with you.

Think it was only a few years ago a monument was created to commemorate the lives of the 39.

 

[Nebbiolo]

BBC News | UK | The Heysel disaster



Albeit subtly, The BBC agree with you.

It's not something I like saying, probably like the BBC. When you're dealing with the loss of life, with people's loved ones, you should tread carefully. I'm very sympathetic to a Hillsborough ceremony, but I find it a tad offensive if it's expected that no effort needs be made about Heysal.

 

[SLAVEN BILIC]

whole heartedly agree.
this wednesday in work liverpool fans can wear their liverpool shirts and one girl said what do you do if your an evertonian, i replied, wear a juventus shirt. didn't get spoke to by a kopite for the rest of the day. now i'm not saying hillsborough was great, it was horrific but no more or less horrific than heysel.

 

[davek]

Have to agree with you Neb. It's the grief industry in full swing and there's something nauseating about it. Obviously the families and close friends of those who died will want to remember them and the senselessness of their deaths. The rest I just see as mass hysteria - even ghoulish.

As for Heysel, you're dealing with a club who's supporters painted themselves as victims because Juve's travelling support turned their backs on the 'reconciliation' gesture before their 2005 CL QF match at Anfield. They sanctimoniously gloried in the 'insult'. An absolutely incredible passage of events, and one which underlines why they will always want '85 expunged from the collective memory.

 

[Nebbiolo]

Have to agree with you Neb. It's the grief industry in full swing and there's something nauseating about it. Obviously the families and close friends of those who died will want to remember them and the senselessness of their deaths. The rest I just see as mass hysteria - even ghoulish.

As for Heysel, you're dealing with a club who's supporters painted themselves as victims because Juve's travelling support turned their backs on the 'reconciliation' gesture before their 2005 CL QF match at Anfield. They sanctimoniously gloried in the 'insult'. An absolutely incredible passage of events, and one which underlines why they will always want '85 expunged from the collective memory.

It's something that's bothered me for a while. However, there wasn't the frenzy surrounding "justice for the 96" that there is at the moment. It's becoming, like you say, nauseating to say the least. No doubt the same faces are the ones stoking up the hysteria. Some perspective and honesty regarding the club's past is required. Don't suppose that will happen, though. The lunatics will get their way, will demand a scarves across the park day (or Mersey, god forbid) and completely ignore events of Heysal, which were effectively caused by a section of Liverpool fans (no doubt the loons over the park will continue to blame the crumbling stadium, which somehow must have forced Liverpool fans to lob missiles and charge the opposing supporters).

 

[davek]

It's something that's bothered me for a while. However, there wasn't the frenzy surrounding "justice for the 96" that there is at the moment. It's becoming, like you say, nauseating to say the least. No doubt the same faces are the ones stoking up the hysteria. Some perspective and honesty regarding the club's past is required. Don't suppose that will happen, though. The lunatics will get their way, will demand a scarves across the park day (or Mersey, god forbid) and completely ignore events of Heysal, which were effectively caused by a section of Liverpool fans (no doubt the loons over the park will continue to blame the crumbling stadium, which somehow must have forced Liverpool fans to lob missiles and charge the opposing supporters).

You see, the club itself hardly gives a lead. Apart from the lack of remembrance at Anfield of the affair, already pointed out above, the club take the line of acknowledging their fan's behaviour on the day only in the context of past injustices visited on Liverpool fans in previous years at places like Rome. It's the worst kind of non-apology and admission of guilt. A real sh1thouse way out. If they said that their fans were the primary factor in the manslaughter and didn't hedge it in parenthesis then they could make a defence around the fact that this sort of unlawful killing could have been visited on many English clubs travelling abroad in the 1980s. But they wont do that. They prefer to avoid confrontation with their own fan base...for all their great PR from the media, probably the most vicious and highly organised 'lobby group' in British football.

 

[DENNIS STEVENS]

it's always seemed absurd to me that clubs get deducted points for financial irregularities, sometimes even demoted, yet a club whose fans cause the whole of english club football to be banned from europe for a few seasons were not appropriately punished at the time. i can understand both the club & the supporters not wanting to draw attention to the event, unfortunately, they have the support of the footballing authorities in this instance as uefa are as culpable as the fans for holding the final in that stadium & making wholly inadequate segregation arrangements.

i have no problem with remembering & respecting the events at hillsborough, even though it caused the knee-jerk reaction that still deprives us of any standing areas, but sometimes it seems this incident has become lfc's "munich".

 

[davek]

it's always seemed absurd to me that clubs get deducted points for financial irregularities, sometimes even demoted, yet a club whose fans cause the whole of english club football to be banned from europe for a few seasons were not appropriately punished at the time. i can understand both the club & the supporters not wanting to draw attention to the event, unfortunately, they have the support of the footballing authorities in this instance as uefa are as culpable as the fans for holding the final in that stadium & making wholly inadequate segregation arrangements.

i have no problem with remembering & respecting the events at hillsborough, even though it caused the knee-jerk reaction that still deprives us of any standing areas, but sometimes it seems this incident has become lfc's "munich".

I feel sh1t saying it, especially at this point in time, but I think it's been used as absolution for previous events.

 

[Nebbiolo]

I feel sh1t saying it, especially at this point in time, but I think it's been used as absolution for previous events.

Quite possibly. At the least, it's being used by some to further demand special attention from the footballing world. Why there is this need is something I'm not able to properly grasp. But it has hit a point where some of their fans have even been bothering Everton fans into joining in with the hysteria. It's becoming a stick to beat people with.

Well, I do believe in 13 months it will be 25 years since Heysal. I'm guessing that the faux-mourners won't be mourning then.

 

[davek]

Quite possibly. At the least, it's being used by some to further demand special attention from the footballing world. Why there is this need is something I'm not able to properly grasp. But it has hit a point where some of their fans have even been bothering Everton fans into joining in with the hysteria. It's becoming a stick to beat people with.

Well, I do believe in 13 months it will be 25 years since Heysal. I'm guessing that the faux-mourners won't be mourning then.

Many are that cynical and I'm sure they've been hoping for a 'bounce' off these weeks events for their CL and Premiership campaigns. Sad, but almost certainly true.

 

[Cal]

Heysel will never be the centre of attention because our country wasn't directly affected in terms of deaths like Hillsborough was.

Still a sad state of affairs.

 

[Jamo Martinez]

The worst of it is that any reds reading this will fall back on the rhetoric of ''bitter'' accusations and lacking of respect for the victims of Hillsborough. I always say the worst thing that should happen to a fan at the match is that his/her team loses. We should remember the 96 and the 39.