2019/20 Gylfi Sigurdsson

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I think Holgate will be a better midfielder than CB. He's 23 currently so you would anticipate some improvement. I don't believe an argument can be said for Holgate being better currently, but perhaps over the next 18 months or so that may be a natural development?

I am not too hung up on Holgate per se. The aim of Brands will be to ensure we have 4 better CM's than Sigurdsson over the next 18 months. If it's not Holgate it will need to be a player we have brought in.

My overriding points are very simple.

He's currently the best option out of Delph and Schneiderlin.

The criticism at him from fans is disproportionate because of his fee, as plenty of Everton players before him have had - two I named in Fellaini an Lukaku.

We need better, as we do at centre half, right back, down the wings and upfront.
 
Price+Cost+45m are trending in this thread.

That's the crux of the issue why so many fans look for the negative in every performance and fans need to move away from it, we overburden and dwell like no other on transfer fee - as we did with Fellaini and Lukaku.

And gueye, it does annoy me when our fans like to focus on the one thing our best players are bad at instead of looking at the multitude of strengths they have. How we'd kill for lukaku now... But he can't control the ball though.
 
My overriding points are very simple.

He's currently the best option out of Delph and Schneiderlin.

The criticism at him from fans is disproportionate because of his fee, as plenty of Everton players before him have had - two I named in Fellaini an Lukaku.

We need better, as we do at centre half, right back, down the wings and upfront.

Which is fair.

His critics point (which is also reasonable) is that he wouldn't get into a top 4-6 side. However players can still have a role as you transition from where we are to where we want to be.

Painful though it is, look at how Klopp utilised Lovren, Lallana, Milner, Mignolet , Karius, Clyne etc in the short-medium term. None of those are good enough to regularly start for a top 4 team, but helped them get there.
 
Which is fair.

His critics point (which is also reasonable) is that he wouldn't get into a top 4-6 side. However players can still have a role as you transition from where we are to where we want to be.

Painful though it is, look at how Klopp utilised Lovren, Lallana, Milner, Mignolet , Karius, Clyne etc in the short-medium term. None of those are good enough to regularly start for a top 4 team, but helped them get there.

Exactly.

And the very fact you're raising that point that he wouldn't get in a top 4-6 side in his thread, and no others reaffirms my point.

How many in our starting 11 would make a top 4-6 side? And is that a fair stick to beat Sigurdsson with?
 
He's not good enough to be a defensive midfielder or a box to box midfielder.His strengths are free kicks and playing through balls to two forwards. Unfortunately however great his free kicks are,nobody is scoring from them.If they did we would be praising him for his assists.
He is not consistent enough with his passing in the final third this season which is not acceptable.
Until we find someone better then we are stuck with him so let's hope he starts improving and the rest of the team take advantage of his free kicks.
 

Siggy has faced a major problem this term, he lost his hod carrier when we cashed in on Gana. He has never been the fastest, slow to recover situations but with Gana about he never had to be as he was given acres of space by Gana. I hope that Gbamin can come close to doing what Gana did, if so we may have a player again. When paired with Schnide it's the equivalent of dead slow and stop and must never be allowed to appear in blue shirts ever again.
 
At the end of the day he has barely performed as a £20m midfielder let alone a £45m one in the last 3 years, so the price tag is not at all the issue.
Correct, couldn't agree more other than the major problem, as has happened with other signings, is our management paying too much in the first place. Swansea took us to the cleaners with that deal in which case Siggy can't be blamed either.
 
I’d say there’s a counter argument though that part of our problems as a club is that the fan base can be appeased by what is effectively the bare minimum. ‘He worked hard’ hey was quite tidy in possession’ ‘he created a few chances’ ‘he tracked back a bit’. Sayings along those types of themes are what I’d expect from any central midfielder at any level of football. They are not however good enough for a team aspiring to mix it in the European places in the most difficult league in the world. It shouldn’t be a pleasant surprise when Siggurdson puts in the bare minimum for us. All of that is the norm, that should be what a bad performance looks like for him, we should be saying ‘he was poor today as he didn’t control the game’ ‘he was poor today as he only created a few chances’ ‘he was poor today as he didn’t threaten from outside the box as much as he normally does’, not ‘he was good today as he was tidy in possession’.

We need more, we should expect more, and we should demand more, regardless of price tag.

Whoever is stepping out for Everton whatever they cost should be being held to the highest standards.

We need to stop indulging centrebacks who can’t play out from the back, we need to stop worshipping full backs who can’t cross a ball or play a pass, we need to stop saying that midfielders who are too slow or just doing the bare minimum are ok, and we need to stop pretending that strikers who score a few goals but don’t do anything else are good enough for us.

Fortunately someone had the good sense to write it on the club badge so we didn’t forget it.

Great post but we need to get there first.

You could however use benchmarks to describe new signings.


My overriding points are very simple.

He's currently the best option out of Delph and Schneiderlin.

The criticism at him from fans is disproportionate because of his fee, as plenty of Everton players before him have had - two I named in Fellaini an Lukaku.

We need better, as we do at centre half, right back, down the wings and upfront.

100% better than Delph/Schneiderlin. Needs Davies to do the running for him until Gbamin returns.

I think you were a bit harsh on Holgate, he and Davies together is a different type of midfield but much more energy.

My view is that he, schneiderlin and Delph need to be replaced ASAP as their wages are far too high for their contributions.

Summer time when we have Gbamin and Delph in preseason we need a couple of new players to compete with them.

Until then, Sigurdsson is the best of a very bad bunch.
 

He hadnt played support striker in his career...your post only focuses on his position at this club amd not his regular positions of left midfield and...centre midfield.

He played a lot of games in centre midfield for Reading for example.

Im not sure why you would even include an undercurrent of rudeness in your post when you obviously dont have any knowledge on the player before joining the club...

Credibility / strawman arguments...get in the bin.

This is funny. I‘m willing to indulge for a bit, so let‘s break it down. I admit I didn’t watch every Reading, Shrewsbury, Crewe, Hoffenheim, Spurs, Swansea, Iceland and Everton game he’s ever played in. But this is what I remember from reading up on him before he joined EFC.

And, in case you or anyone else misses it, the key point is this: just because a player *has played* in a position doesn’t mean it’s their position. Again, context matters.

In his career he’s played the majority of his games at attacking midfield. Ie the number 10 role (or arguably 8). This includes ‘second striker‘ because of the way he plays. Extremely rarely he’s played false nine when without a partner. All his clubs have recognised this, but most have struggled to put him in that position at some point for one reason or another. And Sigurdsson himself has said that’s his preferred position.

Left wing: He played some matches at left wing for Spurs, when they couldn’t fit him into the team, at Swansea for about half a season when he was largely supporting the striker from the left in attack then moving back in to make a compact 5, and at Everton in the Allardyce season. Out of all those, I’d say only Swansea is representative of him being played there in a settled structure. The rest were patchwork or experimentation, a lot like his position right now. The proof of that is that the experiments didn’t last very long, despite him ‘doing a job’. And at Spurs, he himself put the ‘failure’ down to being played out of position.

Central midfield: rarely, if ever. The fact that you‘re harking back to a period ten years ago, in the Championship, says it all.

I’m sure some appearance stats website will have this detail for you.

But the funny thing is, all that is completely irrelevant; my points being quite simple: 1) central midfield in a two at a team aiming for Europe is not his position — i.e. he is out of position — but he’s doing an OK job as cover while we have injuries. 2) The tactics need to acknowledge that, by not playing through him and whoever his partner is, if we do want to play with him in a two. 3) And as fans, we should recognise the context, lay off him, and put the negative energy into supporting someone else positively.

It’s not too hard to understand that that’s a *completely different thing* to discussing his long-term future at the club and whether he should be built around (the answer clearly being ‘no’). Give it a go.
 
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This is funny. I‘m willing to indulge for a bit, so let‘s break it down. I admit I didn’t watch every Reading, Shrewsbury, Crewe, Hoffenheim, Spurs, Swansea, Iceland and Everton game he’s ever played in. But this is what I remember from reading up on him before he joined EFC.

And, in case you or anyone else misses it, the key point is this: just because a player *has played* in a position doesn’t mean it’s their position. Again, context matters.

In his career he’s played the majority of his games at attacking midfield. Ie the number 10 role (or arguably 8). This includes ‘second striker‘ because of the way he plays. Extremely rarely he’s played false nine when without a partner. All his clubs have recognised this, but most have struggled to put him in that position at some point for one reason or another. And Sigurdsson himself has said that’s his preferred position.

Left wing: He played some matches at left wing for Spurs, when they couldn’t fit him into the team, at Swansea for about half a season when he was largely supporting the striker from the left in attack then moving back in to make a compact 5, and at Everton in the Allardyce season. Out of all those, I’d say only Swansea is representative of him being played there in a settled structure. The rest were patchwork or experimentation, a lot like his position right now. The proof of that is that the experiments didn’t last very long, despite him ‘doing a job’. And at Spurs, he himself put the ‘failure’ down to being played out of position.

Central midfield: rarely, if ever. The fact that you‘re harking back to a period ten years ago, in the Championship, says it all.

I’m sure some appearance stats website will have this detail for you.

But the funny thing is, all that is completely irrelevant; my points being quite simple: 1) central midfield in a two at a team aiming for Europe is not his position — i.e. he is out of position — but he’s doing an OK job as cover while we have injuries. 2) The tactics need to acknowledge that, by not playing through him and whoever his partner is, if we do want to play with him in a two. 3) And as fans, we should recognise the context, lay off him, and put the negative energy into supporting someone else positively.

It’s not too hard to understand that that’s a *completely different thing* to discussing his long-term future at the club and whether he should be built around (the answer clearly being ‘no’). Give it a go.

So you admit youve not seen him play before joining Everton and have "read about him".

Fair enough so youre not aware that:

Sigurdsson played for Reading as a centre mid.
Sigurdsson played almost every game for Iceland as a centre mid.

Now you know that it was his original position for both club and country.

It was only after joining Everton that he has played as a support striker...previously he was a centre mid, left sided attacker or an attacking midfielder which is probably as close to where he played for us but equally as close to centre mid.

So your point about it being an unfamiliar role is incorrect...thats the crux of your post and it is incorrect.

Is he best in that position, clearly no.

Which position is he best in...who knows? He certainly didnt play in experimental roles for 'short periods' apart from when he failed at Spurs.. thats more nonsense.

I used to like him at Reading and Swansea by the way and have supported him until seeing performances where he tries hiding all match.

Also i think alot of fans actually detest him playing for the sole reason that people who 'support' him do so based on excuses and stats, not from using their own eyes. Its boring...as boring as you are uninformed.

My suggestion would be to watch what he actually does effectively and then praise him, not to give uninformed condescending opinions on something you clearly have no clue about based upon 'reading something'.


Anyone who has watched Gylfi Sigurdsson over his career will find your posts on him to be bizarre.

He was good as the main man at Swansea, Hoffenheim, Reading and Iceland. He has not been going at Spurs or Everton when he isnt.

Thats clear as day.
 
So you admit youve not seen him play before joining Everton and have "read about him".

Fair enough so youre not aware that:

Sigurdsson played for Reading as a centre mid.
Sigurdsson played almost every game for Iceland as a centre mid.

Now you know that it was his original position for both club and country.

It was only after joining Everton that he has played as a support striker...previously he was a centre mid, left sided attacker or an attacking midfielder which is probably as close to where he played for us but equally as close to centre mid.

So your point about it being an unfamiliar role is incorrect...thats the crux of your post and it is incorrect.

Is he best in that position, clearly no.

Which position is he best in...who knows? He certainly didnt play in experimental roles for 'short periods' apart from when he failed at Spurs.. thats more nonsense.

I used to like him at Reading and Swansea by the way and have supported him until seeing performances where he tries hiding all match.

Also i think alot of fans actually detest him playing for the sole reason that people who 'support' him do so based on excuses and stats, not from using their own eyes. Its boring...as boring as you are uninformed.

My suggestion would be to watch what he actually does effectively and then praise him, not to give uninformed condescending opinions on something you clearly have no clue about based upon 'reading something'.


Anyone who has watched Gylfi Sigurdsson over his career will find your posts on him to be bizarre.

He was good as the main man at Swansea, Hoffenheim, Reading and Iceland. He has not been going at Spurs or Everton when he isnt.

Thats clear as day.

You’re too funny. If you don’t understand that ‘not every’ is not the same thing as ‘none’ then there’s no helping you my friend. I set out the argument very clearly for you. Twice. But on both occasions you’ve attempted to misrepresent it and argue on a tangent. If you ever manage to get your head around the really simple logic, I’ll be very happy to pick it back up again. But for now I’ll leave this one here. Have a good evening.
 
Siggy has faced a major problem this term, he lost his hod carrier when we cashed in on Gana. He has never been the fastest, slow to recover situations but with Gana about he never had to be as he was given acres of space by Gana. I hope that Gbamin can come close to doing what Gana did, if so we may have a player again. When paired with Schnide it's the equivalent of dead slow and stop and must never be allowed to appear in blue shirts ever again.


Gbamin coming in will make no difference (even if he turns out to be boss) to Sigurdsson's gashness.
 

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