Goals on Sunday

bicycleheader · February 7, 2017

Mikey_Fitzgerald said:
Believe what you want to believe of it mate, but I know where my opinion lies and I feel justified in thinking it

Sorry Mikey, that's just lunacy.

Darkly cynical....

Gwladysstreetlad · February 7, 2017

Mikey_Fitzgerald said:
So he did nothing good during his time here did he?

Because that's just blatantly wrong

I agree that he ultimately failed here, but failure and disaster are pretty far apart

It just seems strange to me to carry all that angst and hate around inside yourself

Yeah, he failed, that's why he's not here anymore, but don't pretend he didn't do good things that we're still benefiting from now, because he did. I wasn't a "Martinez Guy" and even I can admit that

I honestly don't think he did many positive things during his time here Mikey, I really don't. Yes of course he got some things right (even a broken clock is right twice a day!). I was very happy with the way he involved Howard Kendall in the club's again, I was delighted with the way he told Chelsea to do one last season regarding Stones (particularly because it meant he wasn't able to waste the money!) and he did buy a few good players. The problem is his negatives FAR outweigh the positives by an obscene amount. He was a fraudulent failure who was well on his way to becoming a disaster for this club and his biggest obstacle was his own ego which seems to rule every decision he makes.

MikeH72 · February 7, 2017

Mikey_Fitzgerald said:
Believe what you want to believe of it mate, but I know where my opinion lies and I feel justified in thinking it

What I believe is that Martinez was just so genuinely clueless that he believed Alcaraz to be a good defender.

davek · February 7, 2017

DanEFC92 said:
Cons:

Refused to drop Howard until it was too late.

Woeful home form in final 2 years.

Well he looks like he might have found Howard's successor if Koeman's perseverance now with Robles is anything to go by. So that could cancel out the Howard point.

But you could go on all night horse trading over details for and against. The point is it was a mixed bag of good and bad. Of course, that's not enough for some and only his head on a pike will suffice. There's no reasoning with such people. It's a shame, but there it is,

MikeH72 · February 7, 2017

Gwladysstreetlad said:
I honestly don't think he did many positive things during his time here Mikey, I really don't. Yes of course he got some things right (even a broken clock is right twice a day!). I was very happy with the way he involved Howard Kendall in the club's again, I was delighted with the way he told Chelsea to do one last season regarding Stones (particularly because it meant he wasn't able to waste the money!) and he did buy a few good players. The problem is his negatives FAR outweigh the positives by an obscene amount. He was a fraudulent failure who was well on his way to becoming a disaster for this club and his biggest obstacle was his own ego which seems to rule every decision he makes.

I think Mike recognises that as well to be fair.

Mikey_Fitzgerald · February 7, 2017

bicycleheader said:
Sorry Mikey, that's just lunacy.

Darkly cynical....

Again mate, if you don't see a problem with it then fair enough

I've given the reasons as to why I believe it to be no grounds for praise

I trust the source I got it from and that's enough for me (And no, I won't reveal who the source was but it's someone who has been right in the past)

canuckblue · February 7, 2017

Alcaraz was definitely not Martinez' get-out-of-jail-free card.

bicycleheader · February 7, 2017

Mikey_Fitzgerald said:
Again mate, if you don't see a problem with it then fair enough

I've given the reasons as to why I believe it to be no grounds for praise

I trust the source I got it from and that's enough for me (And no, I won't reveal who the source was but it's someone who has been right in the past)

But surely even a source would only be giving their opinion??

How do you prove Martinez willingly bought a player to get them treatment, get them looked after and have a mate in the dressing room?

DanEFC92 · February 7, 2017

davek said:
Well he looks like he might have found Howard's successor if Koeman's perseverance now with Robles is anything to go by. So that could cancel out the Howard point.

But you could go on all night horse trading over details for and against. The point is it was a mixed bag of good and bad. Of course, that's not enough for some and only his head on a pike will suffice. There's no reasoning with such people. It's a shame, but there it is,

Would be a point for the 'decent buys' section in Pros, not sure it cancels out the Howard point.

Aye. Semantics.

Papa Shango · February 7, 2017

ianefc said:
I said I thought he was a good bloke, in between his sacking and then when he demanded his £10m for being, as you say 'rightly sacked' and then I decided that was that for him.

I'm sure I praised him for bringing Kendall back too.

He was due the money. Its not that hard to understand and its not your money so why care about it?

Its the clubs fault for giving him the contract and its between him and the club.

Any manager would do it, any person would actually.

Kever10 · February 7, 2017

Mikey_Fitzgerald said:
Again mate, if you don't see a problem with it then fair enough

I've given the reasons as to why I believe it to be no grounds for praise

I trust the source I got it from and that's enough for me (And no, I won't reveal who the source was but it's someone who has been right in the past)

Hahaha.

Source. For when you make an outrageous claim and have nothing to back it up with.

I have it on good authority that Martinez didn't even want Alcaraz, but he had a gentleman's agreement with Moyes before he left, and needed to honour it.

Can't reveal my source though...

Papa Shango · February 7, 2017

Mikey_Fitzgerald said:
So @Kever10 you think it's perfectly fine for a manager to sign one of his ex players, who he knows is injured and just happens to be one of his mates, to a contract so that he can get treatment on his new clubs dime? There's nothing about that at all which doesn't strike you as dodgy or sinister in any way?

I'd be interested to see people like yourselves reaction if someone like Harry Redknapp did something similar...

Oh the dodgy stuff again!

He was a free agent brought in as a fourth choice CB. Not every signing is just for the first team. Stekelenberg was probably brought in under similar circumstances but another goalie didnt materialize so he was thrust into the first team.

ianefc · February 7, 2017

21 wins in 75 was enough to convince me. He's part of our very recent history, I didn't start this thread, I've also been reasonable on Koeman and not over blown things. Don't like my stance on Martinez then ignore me.

Mikey_Fitzgerald · February 7, 2017

bicycleheader said:
But surely even a source would only be giving their opinion??

How do you prove Martinez willingly bought a player to get them treatment, get them looked after and have a mate in the dressing room?

I've probably already said too much to be honest, but let's just say what I've heard was convincing and leave it at that

Papa Shango · February 7, 2017

Toffeeslam said:
A Pro Martinez does not exist mate, this is a manager who used the foundations of 11 years of a David Moyes team to get his 72 points then
leaked 30 odd points in the next two seasons once his idea's bedded in. To suggest that Martinez was anything other than an unmitigated disaster would be nothing more than 'presenting alternative facts' to win an argument.

The facts people have posted proves this point

Why didnt Moyes use those foundations himself then?

He flopped at the end, hence him being sacked and most agree with that. Why people have to bang on and on and on about it I have no idea. I could understand if he was still here but he isnt.

Move on!