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[GrandOldTeam]

BBC SPORT | Football | My Club | C | Crewe | Liverpool reported in tap-up row

Liverpool reported in tap-up row

Liverpool are the club reported by Crewe over an alleged illegal approach to sign a player from their academy, BBC Radio Stoke understands.
Crewe's director of football Dario Gradi revealed on Monday his club had made the complaint and the player in question is 15-year-old Max Clayton.
Liverpool were linked with Clayton in February 2008 and were willing to pay a six-figure sum to take him to Anfield.
Crewe rejected the approach, but Gradi says Clayton now wants to leave.
He told the Daily Express: "Max has come in and told us that he wants to leave right now to join a big club.
"You worry financially for the clubs where the players are stolen from.
"What sort of compensation are we going to get for all the work that has gone into developing him? Any compensation is insignificant for the effort that gone in.
"It's simple, the big clubs are stealing other people's players."
Gradi revealed the news in the wake of the decision to ban Chelsea from signing any players until January 2011.
The 68-year-old, who managed Crewe between 1983 and 2007, brought players such as David Platt, Danny Murphy, Seth Johnson, Robbie Savage and Dean Ashton through the ranks at the Alexandra Stadium during his time in charge.
Gradi has given his support to Fifa's decision to place a transfer embargo on Chelsea, after they were found guilty of inducing 18-year-old French midfielder Gael Kakuta to break his contract with Lens in 2007.
Chelsea have already confirmed that they will launch the "strongest possible appeal" to the ruling.
Manchester United could also face an investigation after it emerged that another French club, Le Havre, are going to ask Fifa to look into Paul Pogba's move to Old Trafford in August.
"I'm delighted with what has happened with Chelsea," added Gradi. "I would hope all the big clubs are frightened to death. There is no excuse for breaking the rules.
"We lost a 12-year-old to Everton. He was our best 12-year-old. The lure is that the bigger clubs pay big expenses.
"This kid will be getting several hundred pounds a week in expenses. We pay expenses but nothing like that. It's more a case of giving out £20 if someone can pick a kid up en-route.
"At least Fifa have given the smaller clubs hope."

Not the Liverpool bit, great to see we are getting in on the act of stealing the best youngsters.....

 

[SevertonT]

how is that great.

 

[Goat]

The owners will be made up to recieve a transfer ban. I can just imagine the guilty plea and a call for the longest ban ever.

 

[davek]

"We absolutely played by the rules. There is a right way to do business and that’s the way we conduct ourselves here." - Elstone on the Garbutt row.

I think there's a moral versus legal issue here. Of course, someone like Elstone who was born with a pocket calculator in his mouth wouldn't fathom that. Rational economic man personified.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

"We absolutely played by the rules. There is a right way to do business and that’s the way we conduct ourselves here." - Elstone on the Garbutt row.

I think there's a moral versus legal issue here. Of course, someone like Elstone who was born with a pocket calculator in his mouth wouldn't fathom that. Rational economic man personified.

Astonishing.

Mr Moyes also regularly beats the drum of "proper way to do our dealing" too you know. Quote him you monster.

 

[Goat]

Thats why Dave is great. He sees evil in everything, I love him.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

Thats why Dave is great. He sees evil in everything, I love him.

Its genius. It really is.

He's David Cameron, I'm convinced. If he's not, he's definitely in the game.

 

[davek]

Child trafficking is 'good business'. I wouldn't say Elstone is evil...I cant speak for the NSPCC like. :hay:

 

[Neiler]

To be fair we are very attractive to young players at lower league clubs, if not the most attractive in the PL, mosty youngsters these days seem to have the sense to realise if they sign for Utd, Chelsea or the other lot there careers will never see the light of day. Some great prospects in the youth system at the mo, could be scary in five years time the talent bursting through - far we are from the days of getting excited over Michael Branch.

Is the arguement really a moral one? I have no doubht Crewe, Leeds etc would have no hassle throwing these "children" on to lifes scrap heap if they didnt make the required standard. No doubt a lot of under hand tactics go on in terms of recruitment, proving it is something else, as far as i can make out Everton acted within the rules - they offered what they felt was a fair fee for Garbutt that was rejected by Leeds, who took up their right to seek compinsation at a tribunal. Its not fair but the rules are the ass in this situation.

Human traficing is a bit strong - when you take into account the players choice is detrimental to the whole process. I would hardly compare our facilites, education, coaching and provision of a platform for Premeiership status working in a sweatshop either - anyway you look at it its easier to make a breakthrough at a top four club coming from the youth set up, then it is to get picked up form the lower leauges as a senior pro - its a no brainer for the lad really.

The rules are wrong for me, lower league clubs should be protected untill a player is 18 as should Prem ones - at the very least at least a player signs pro terms Imo. As the rules stand though Everton acted within the rules.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

The rules are wrong for me, lower league clubs should be protected untill a player is 18 as should Prem ones - at the very least at least a player signs pro terms Imo. As the rules stand though Everton acted within the rules.

It wouldn't work.

Not only would it put a lot of people out of a job, how could you legally implement that?

"Sorry Mr and Mrs ____, your son has to remain at Bury for the next 8 years"

 

[kenada_blue]

Its a farce IMO.

The lower league clubs are just looking out for more money IMO. And this clamp down by Fifa over Chelsea is just opening the floodgates for clubs to have a whinge and get more money.

It doesnt make sense to me really. They cant legally sign a full time contract till they're 18. So unless they clubs have a kid tied up before that, how can they stop another club getting the kid?

Man United will be banned for life from transfers if this is going to happen to all clubs. They've been doing it for years...David Beckham anyone?

And I've said in a previous thread, the whole "keep them till they're 18" idea is awful. Players like Rooney, Fabregas etc wouldnt be who they are today if they were trained by clubs like Rochdale since they were 11 years old.

 

[Neiler]

It wouldn't work.

Not only would it put a lot of people out of a job, how could you legally implement that?

"Sorry Mr and Mrs ____, your son has to remain at Bury for the next 8 years"[/QUO

True if my memeory of Uk law is correct you cant enter into a legal/adult contract untill you are 16.

Not sure how how you could get around it legally, then there is EU law on restriction of movement and trade to consider.

I suppose a usefull place to start is looking at the contrasting relationship between football recruitement rules of not being allowed to recruit young players in a certain amount of distance from the club nationaly - does this not restrict freedom of movement in employment in terms of EU law. It may be impossible to stop the practice compleatley but the structure and rules goverening football certainly are in contrast to the law of the land and in this instance provide the big clubs with massive leverage in terms of poaching. As i say it may impossible to eradicate but rules could be put in place to make it unpalitaple for clubs (finacnialy to poach young player). The law is great fun for nothing more then porivdeing loopholes - have no idea were i would start with this one though.

Who would be out of a job mate, scouts, agents coaches - i guess the same could be siad of the teams in the lower leagues in those respective professions.

 

[kenada_blue]

It wouldn't work.

Not only would it put a lot of people out of a job, how could you legally implement that?

"Sorry Mr and Mrs ____, your son has to remain at Bury for the next 8 years"[/QUO

True if my memeory of Uk law is correct you cant enter into a legal/adult contract untill you are 16.

Not sure how how you could get around it legally, then there is EU law on restriction of movement and trade to consider.

I suppose a usefull place to start is looking at the contrasting relationship between football recruitement rules of not being allowed to recruit young players in a certain amount of distance from the club nationaly - does this not restrict freedom of movement in employment in terms of EU law. It may be impossible to stop the practice compleatley but the structure and rules goverening football certainly are in contrast to the law of the land and in this instance provide the big clubs with massive leverage in terms of poaching. As i say it may impossible to eradicate but rules could be put in place to make it unpalitaple for clubs (finacnialy to poach young player). The law is great fun for nothing more then porivdeing loopholes - have no idea were i would start with this one though.

Who would be out of a job mate, scouts, agents coaches - i guess the same could be siad of the teams in the lower leagues in those respective professions.

But what do players at the age of 12-16 sign, apart from a scholarship, to keep them at a football club and stop other clubs from taking an interest?

 

[Neiler]

But what do players at the age of 12-16 sign, apart from a scholarship, to keep them at a football club and stop other clubs from taking an interest?

I think there are scholarships for academys but a player is free to move if he hasnt signed pro terms, legally (and its a while since i studied Uk law) a contract in null and void if signed before 16 (Scotland i think)/17 (England) as the person in question is still considered a child and cant enter into a legally binding agreement. The scholarship forms are signed by the child but also the childs parents up to a certain age, before pro forms are offered to the ones deemed with a chance of making it.

Clubs are entitled to compensation based on the resources they have put into the players development up untill that point. Thats why the likes of Rooney, Jack and Josie signed pro contracts with us just after their 17th birthdays. Technicaly they could move to Utd or Arsenal academys before signing pro terms, with Everton due compensation - thats what happend with Garbutt.

 

[onceabluealwaysablue]

I hope the [Poor language removed] get fcuked over a big fine and 50 point deduction lol