Full backs (cont'd from Martinez thread)

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Zatara

Player Valuation: £100m
@davek @bluestevon @Warrington Blue

I put the long post about the left back options in the Martinez thread due to davek and bluestevon discussing Martinez's choice to drop Galloway for Baines.

I think our left back options are excellent at the moment a shortened version of that post:

Galloway: Had 2 games at the end of last season which prepared him well for coming in for Baines in 15 games. I would like to see him at CB in the FA Cup and get a few games at CB before the season is out so in the same way we saw he was good enough last season to step into LB we will know if he is ready to become 4th choice centre back next season OR go on loan to a decent team who will know he is close to our first 11.

Garbutt: Hopefully he does well at Fulham this season and his defensive game improves as he looks great going forward and is Hinchcliffe-esque with his set pieces. I thought he looked at least on a par with Luke Shaw last season and would love it if he could dislodge Baines as then he would be some player.

Baines: Coming back from his long layoff and will take some time to get back to his old self. I think having Kone ahead of him is not going to help his natural game so either Cleverley should play there or we sign another player in the window.

Baines is now 31 and i imagine has 3 more years at this level ahead of him. Will Garbutt wait that long to become 1st choice, i dont think so. Also what happens if Garbutt dislodges Baines, weve then got a top notch left back whose of the age where we wouldnt get a good transfer fee but at the same time would be on large wages. I suppose it could be a good problem to solve!



Coleman: Looked great the other week and i think his relationship on the right with Deulofeu is fantastic. I think (as with the LB position) if we sign a LM/LW player then Deulofeu wouldnt be double marked and so this should also give Coleman more space as well for his marauding runs.

The only position (other than CF) where we have no real backup is RB. I wonder what will happen here as Pennington and Browning seem to be Colemans backup but, like Galloway are actually centre backs....also Holgate having been signed for actual £££ id expect to push his way through here as Martinez seems to want his centre backs to start as full backs...

Otherwise, Kenny seems to be the only "natural" right back we have coming through. However hes also been a centre back and defensive midfielder so will he come through at right back and is he going to fulfill the promise shown with England u19s a couple of years ago?

I know @Warrington Blue mentioned Sam Byram in the other thread but he doesnt even have any England youth caps which is strange for a first choice player let alone Leeds' best player. You said he could potentially become "world class" but could he even dislodge Coleman who is possibly the best right back in the league, and would he even want to come in as second choice as , like Garbutt probably rates himself highly enough to be a first choice somewhere....?


The full back options are very interesting as we will not only start seeing competition for Baines and Coleman for the first time but also if Martinez elects to use more defensive full backs/centre backs in certain games...if he is modelling us on Barca then its odd to play centre backs at full-back.
 

agreed
@davek @bluestevon @Warrington Blue

I put the long post about the left back options in the Martinez thread due to davek and bluestevon discussing Martinez's choice to drop Galloway for Baines.

I think our left back options are excellent at the moment a shortened version of that post:

Galloway: Had 2 games at the end of last season which prepared him well for coming in for Baines in 15 games. I would like to see him at CB in the FA Cup and get a few games at CB before the season is out so in the same way we saw he was good enough last season to step into LB we will know if he is ready to become 4th choice centre back next season OR go on loan to a decent team who will know he is close to our first 11.

Garbutt: Hopefully he does well at Fulham this season and his defensive game improves as he looks great going forward and is Hinchcliffe-esque with his set pieces. I thought he looked at least on a par with Luke Shaw last season and would love it if he could dislodge Baines as then he would be some player.

Baines: Coming back from his long layoff and will take some time to get back to his old self. I think having Kone ahead of him is not going to help his natural game so either Cleverley should play there or we sign another player in the window.

Baines is now 31 and i imagine has 3 more years at this level ahead of him. Will Garbutt wait that long to become 1st choice, i dont think so. Also what happens if Garbutt dislodges Baines, weve then got a top notch left back whose of the age where we wouldnt get a good transfer fee but at the same time would be on large wages. I suppose it could be a good problem to solve!



Coleman: Looked great the other week and i think his relationship on the right with Deulofeu is fantastic. I think (as with the LB position) if we sign a LM/LW player then Deulofeu wouldnt be double marked and so this should also give Coleman more space as well for his marauding runs.

The only position (other than CF) where we have no real backup is RB. I wonder what will happen here as Pennington and Browning seem to be Colemans backup but, like Galloway are actually centre backs....also Holgate having been signed for actual £££ id expect to push his way through here as Martinez seems to want his centre backs to start as full backs...

Otherwise, Kenny seems to be the only "natural" right back we have coming through. However hes also been a centre back and defensive midfielder so will he come through at right back and is he going to fulfill the promise shown with England u19s a couple of years ago?

I know @Warrington Blue mentioned Sam Byram in the other thread but he doesnt even have any England youth caps which is strange for a first choice player let alone Leeds' best player. You said he could potentially become "world class" but could he even dislodge Coleman who is possibly the best right back in the league, and would he even want to come in as second choice as , like Garbutt probably rates himself highly enough to be a first choice somewhere....?


The full back options are very interesting as we will not only start seeing competition for Baines and Coleman for the first time but also if Martinez elects to use more defensive full backs/centre backs in certain games...if he is modelling us on Barca then its odd to play centre backs at full-back.
 
Is this thing only directed at 3 people? Well Clique me a river.

@davek @bluestevon @Warrington Blue

I put the long post about the left back options in the Martinez thread due to davek and bluestevon discussing Martinez's choice to drop Galloway for Baines.

I think our left back options are excellent at the moment a shortened version of that post:

Galloway: Had 2 games at the end of last season which prepared him well for coming in for Baines in 15 games. I would like to see him at CB in the FA Cup and get a few games at CB before the season is out so in the same way we saw he was good enough last season to step into LB we will know if he is ready to become 4th choice centre back next season OR go on loan to a decent team who will know he is close to our first 11.

Garbutt: Hopefully he does well at Fulham this season and his defensive game improves as he looks great going forward and is Hinchcliffe-esque with his set pieces. I thought he looked at least on a par with Luke Shaw last season and would love it if he could dislodge Baines as then he would be some player.

Baines: Coming back from his long layoff and will take some time to get back to his old self. I think having Kone ahead of him is not going to help his natural game so either Cleverley should play there or we sign another player in the window.

Baines is now 31 and i imagine has 3 more years at this level ahead of him. Will Garbutt wait that long to become 1st choice, i dont think so. Also what happens if Garbutt dislodges Baines, weve then got a top notch left back whose of the age where we wouldnt get a good transfer fee but at the same time would be on large wages. I suppose it could be a good problem to solve!



Coleman: Looked great the other week and i think his relationship on the right with Deulofeu is fantastic. I think (as with the LB position) if we sign a LM/LW player then Deulofeu wouldnt be double marked and so this should also give Coleman more space as well for his marauding runs.

The only position (other than CF) where we have no real backup is RB. I wonder what will happen here as Pennington and Browning seem to be Colemans backup but, like Galloway are actually centre backs....also Holgate having been signed for actual £££ id expect to push his way through here as Martinez seems to want his centre backs to start as full backs...

Otherwise, Kenny seems to be the only "natural" right back we have coming through. However hes also been a centre back and defensive midfielder so will he come through at right back and is he going to fulfill the promise shown with England u19s a couple of years ago?

I know @Warrington Blue mentioned Sam Byram in the other thread but he doesnt even have any England youth caps which is strange for a first choice player let alone Leeds' best player. You said he could potentially become "world class" but could he even dislodge Coleman who is possibly the best right back in the league, and would he even want to come in as second choice as , like Garbutt probably rates himself highly enough to be a first choice somewhere....?


The full back options are very interesting as we will not only start seeing competition for Baines and Coleman for the first time but also if Martinez elects to use more defensive full backs/centre backs in certain games...if he is modelling us on Barca then its odd to play centre backs at full-back.
 
@davek @bluestevon @Warrington Blue

I put the long post about the left back options in the Martinez thread due to davek and bluestevon discussing Martinez's choice to drop Galloway for Baines.

I think our left back options are excellent at the moment a shortened version of that post:

Galloway: Had 2 games at the end of last season which prepared him well for coming in for Baines in 15 games. I would like to see him at CB in the FA Cup and get a few games at CB before the season is out so in the same way we saw he was good enough last season to step into LB we will know if he is ready to become 4th choice centre back next season OR go on loan to a decent team who will know he is close to our first 11.

Garbutt: Hopefully he does well at Fulham this season and his defensive game improves as he looks great going forward and is Hinchcliffe-esque with his set pieces. I thought he looked at least on a par with Luke Shaw last season and would love it if he could dislodge Baines as then he would be some player.

Baines: Coming back from his long layoff and will take some time to get back to his old self. I think having Kone ahead of him is not going to help his natural game so either Cleverley should play there or we sign another player in the window.

Baines is now 31 and i imagine has 3 more years at this level ahead of him. Will Garbutt wait that long to become 1st choice, i dont think so. Also what happens if Garbutt dislodges Baines, weve then got a top notch left back whose of the age where we wouldnt get a good transfer fee but at the same time would be on large wages. I suppose it could be a good problem to solve!



Coleman: Looked great the other week and i think his relationship on the right with Deulofeu is fantastic. I think (as with the LB position) if we sign a LM/LW player then Deulofeu wouldnt be double marked and so this should also give Coleman more space as well for his marauding runs.

The only position (other than CF) where we have no real backup is RB. I wonder what will happen here as Pennington and Browning seem to be Colemans backup but, like Galloway are actually centre backs....also Holgate having been signed for actual £££ id expect to push his way through here as Martinez seems to want his centre backs to start as full backs...

Otherwise, Kenny seems to be the only "natural" right back we have coming through. However hes also been a centre back and defensive midfielder so will he come through at right back and is he going to fulfill the promise shown with England u19s a couple of years ago?

I know @Warrington Blue mentioned Sam Byram in the other thread but he doesnt even have any England youth caps which is strange for a first choice player let alone Leeds' best player. You said he could potentially become "world class" but could he even dislodge Coleman who is possibly the best right back in the league, and would he even want to come in as second choice as , like Garbutt probably rates himself highly enough to be a first choice somewhere....?


The full back options are very interesting as we will not only start seeing competition for Baines and Coleman for the first time but also if Martinez elects to use more defensive full backs/centre backs in certain games...if he is modelling us on Barca then its odd to play centre backs at full-back.
TBH mate, I dont think anyone owns either of those two FB places. We have Coleman and Baines and it should be a no brainer, but I dont think we've seen great quality from them consistently for a couple of seasons. Browning and Galloway filled in for them competently in their absence and I dont think we were weakened. Obviously Galloway is further on than Browning like. Garbutt: he'd have to have added something else to his game at Fulham to nose his way into the team. Yes, delivery from dead balls are good. He's athletic and can get up and down the line. I just dont think he's a good enough defender and I dont think he's all that in terms of passing.

The CB situation: still in flux I';m afraid. I thought we'd gotten on top of this but there's some serious errors creeping in. Jagielka is not the simple answer either. Maybe Galloway is needed in there. Personally, I'd like to have seen us getting hold of Dann in the summer or similar. I like seeing the ball played out from the back but I think a blend of a dominant stopper and a ball playing CB is the right way to progress us right now. Funes Mori can clear his lines in that fashion at times. But I dont think he has the savvy for our PL game at the moment.

Overwhelmingly though the GK situation is THE critical issue in defence. Get a quality gk in and our problems are halved overnight. It's that simple.
 

Agreed on GK problem, its becoming that before every game we know we need to score at least 2 to hopefully get anything out of the game...

Still, even with a top keeper we will need the full backs sorted and i can see problems on the left with one of Baines or Garbutt having their nose put out of joint next season. If Garbutt dislodges Baines how can we have Baines as a backup with his quality and also his salary? Also, Garbutt is of the age now where he needs games so if he cant step up then does he go on loan again and we have Galloway as cover (limiting his own game time)or will he want to leave?

This is a good problem to solve on the face of it but could cause disharmony.

On the right side, if we have the chance to go for Sam Byram as @Warrington Blue suggests and if hes correct that he could be a top player then what happens next? Do we loan Pennington,Holgate,Browning and Kenny for the forseeable future and then sell a couple of them OR do we in fact use Byram like Garbutt and loan him for a season whilst giving the youngsters a chance which may mean another Galloway situation on the right.

I think if we did get in Byram OR like Galloway one of the youngsters performed very well we could have several players ready for the team (fantastic competition for places) but also disharmony through not playing...

I guess im so used to us having zero competition for places over the past 30 years im a bit concerned here!

In a couple of seasons we could have an enormous amount of defenders...

TBH mate, I dont think anyone owns either of those two FB places. We have Coleman and Baines and it should be a no brainer, but I dont think we've seen great quality from them consistently for a couple of seasons. Browning and Galloway filled in for them competently in their absence and I dont think we were weakened. Obviously Galloway is further on than Browning like. Garbutt: he'd have to have added something else to his game at Fulham to nose his way into the team. Yes, delivery from dead balls are good. He's athletic and can get up and down the line. I just dont think he's a good enough defender and I dont think he's all that in terms of passing.

The CB situation: still in flux I';m afraid. I thought we'd gotten on top of this but there's some serious errors creeping in. Jagielka is not the simple answer either. Maybe Galloway is needed in there. Personally, I'd like to have seen us getting hold of Dann in the summer or similar. I like seeing the ball played out from the back but I think a blend of a dominant stopper and a ball playing CB is the right way to progress us right now. Funes Mori can clear his lines in that fashion at times. But I dont think he has the savvy for our PL game at the moment.

Overwhelmingly though the GK situation is THE critical issue in defence. Get a quality gk in and our problems are halved overnight. It's that simple.
 

Been injured but now is first choice after dislodging another loanee.

Also, if Oviedo departs which seems likely hes Baines direct competition.

Garbutt has played 5 games for Fulham, not sure how he is a clear challenger to Baines.
 

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