2022/23 Frank Lampard

[Drico]

I’m not disputing the fact there are no easy fixes at all mate. I’m just questioning whether Lampard really is that long-term fix. I have my doubts is all.

I am not at all invested in Lampard. I have always regarded him as a "face" appointment, one that could placate a section of the fanbase with a little stardust and take the pressure off the charlatans who run the club while not exactly getting stellar results. Moshiri had his one genuine go with Carlo, before the wise old fox called time and won another Champions League. I doubt Moshiri now has the appetite or the means to go for anybody even approaching the vaunted Italian's level.

I'd stay with Lampard for now. The bar being set for him really is not that high. Keep us out of the bottom three and make us look like we can keep real trouble at bay. So, a comfortable 15th is really all that he is being asked to deliver. But my feeling is that the Frank years will never amount to anything more than that. Therefore, I really don't care if he stays or goes right now because I don't think it'll make a massive difference either way while the club is run the way it is. Most managers have almost no impact on a club's success. This is statistically proven. It's all about the salaries to points correlation. So as long as Lampard has us competitive, respectable, and slowly progressing, he'll do for me. But he is on a tightrope.

Moshiri, basically, needs a manager to keep the club in the league until the new stadium opens. If we lose to Newcastle, Lampard will start to feel heat because the progress that I believe I can see will not have been enough to avoid a series of setbacks. The question will be: are we progressing enough to avoid stalling? Any owner with the ego of a man who managed to snare Carlo Ancelotti will always feel he can do better. Frank's been given a chance. If we go into the World Cup break in the bottom three, things get hairy. I always felt he'd survive if we were not cut adrift at the bottom, but if Wolves and Leicester start to improve and we keep losing - or not winning - then that becomes a possibility. I don't hink Lampard is a long-term fix. I see no evidence that he could be. But he has to be a short-term fix or he'll be under huge pressure come November.

 

[ToffeeTim]

Not ‘well on course’ really. That’s the point I’ve been trying to make. I agree with you that talk of the top half etc is way over the top and just staying clear of trouble would be fine. 16 points from 15 games is just about on course to do that though, it’s not really any more than that.

16 from 15 is definitely on course for survival. It would get us 40-42 points. You probably need about 36 to survive.

If we get 3-5 more points than last year then that is success.

 

[Drico]

15th and above is my target and has been from day 1. I just want to see us stabalise and make a move in the right direction - even if it is only 1 position in the table

The 5 games we have after Wednesday will go a long way to dictating our season post Christmas

4 winnable league games and a winnable cup tie. Get 6 or 7 points and progression and we can hopefully avoid the heat of a relegation fight. Any talk of top half and Europe is extremely unhelpful.

Those games you refer to are massive. People are being asked for patience - I have been patient for over 30 years with Everton and it generally leads nowhere - so there will be no patience for the sake of patience. Lampard needs results in those six games before the World Cup. There is no "after Wednesday" for me. He's had his "expected defeats" to United and Spurs. If we are writing off Newcastle, then I have no interest in this charade anymore. They are very beatable. Lampard has to make his progress tangible. He is not a proven manager with a CV of success. He is a former Chelsea great. That is not enough to "keep the faith" with any more than appointing John Terry would be. Time for results now, Frank. Those fixtures are favourable - or at least a very fair test of your progress to date.

 

[ForeverEverton]

I am not at all invested in Lampard. I have always regarded him as a "face" appointment, one that could placate a section of the fanbase with a little stardust and take the pressure off the charlatans who run the club while not exactly getting stellar results. Moshiri had his one genuine go with Carlo, before the wise old fox called time and won another Champions League. I doubt Moshiri now has the appetite or the means to go for anybody even approaching the vaunted Italian's level.

I'd stay with Lampard for now. The bar being set for him really is not that high. Keep us out of the bottom three and make us look like we can keep real trouble at bay. So, a comfortable 15th is really all that he is being asked to deliver. But my feeling is that the Frank years will never amount to anything more than that. Therefore, I really don't care if he stays or goes right now because I don't think it'll make a massive difference either way while the club is run the way it is. Most managers have almost no impact on a club's success. This is statistically proven. It's all about the salaries to points correlation. So as long as Lampard has us competitive, respectable, and slowly progressing, he'll do for me. But he is on a tightrope.

Moshiri, basically, needs a manager to keep the club in the league until the new stadium opens. If we lose to Newcastle, Lampard will start to feel heat because the progress that I believe I can see will not have been enough to avoid a series of setbacks. The question will be: are we progressing enough to avoid stalling? Any owner with the ego of a man who managed to snare Carlo Ancelotti will always feel he can do better. Frank's been given a chance. If we go into the World Cup break in the bottom three, things get hairy. I always felt he'd survive if we were not cut adrift at the bottom, but if Wolves and Leicester start to improve and we keep losing - or not winning - then that becomes a possibility. I don't hink Lampard is a long-term fix. I see no evidence that he could be. But he has to be a short-term fix or he'll be under huge pressure come November.

Fully agree with this... Frank isn`t the type of manager that gets more from his team than they are capable, unlike what Potter did at Brighton for example. His sides usually play the lower side of where they should be.

 

[ForeverBlue92]

I am not at all invested in Lampard. I have always regarded him as a "face" appointment, one that could placate a section of the fanbase with a little stardust and take the pressure off the charlatans who run the club while not exactly getting stellar results. Moshiri had his one genuine go with Carlo, before the wise old fox called time and won another Champions League. I doubt Moshiri now has the appetite or the means to go for anybody even approaching the vaunted Italian's level.

I'd stay with Lampard for now. The bar being set for him really is not that high. Keep us out of the bottom three and make us look like we can keep real trouble at bay. So, a comfortable 15th is really all that he is being asked to deliver. But my feeling is that the Frank years will never amount to anything more than that. Therefore, I really don't care if he stays or goes right now because I don't think it'll make a massive difference either way while the club is run the way it is. Most managers have almost no impact on a club's success. This is statistically proven. It's all about the salaries to points correlation. So as long as Lampard has us competitive, respectable, and slowly progressing, he'll do for me. But he is on a tightrope.

Moshiri, basically, needs a manager to keep the club in the league until the new stadium opens. If we lose to Newcastle, Lampard will start to feel heat because the progress that I believe I can see will not have been enough to avoid a series of setbacks. The question will be: are we progressing enough to avoid stalling? Any owner with the ego of a man who managed to snare Carlo Ancelotti will always feel he can do better. Frank's been given a chance. If we go into the World Cup break in the bottom three, things get hairy. I always felt he'd survive if we were not cut adrift at the bottom, but if Wolves and Leicester start to improve and we keep losing - or not winning - then that becomes a possibility. I don't hink Lampard is a long-term fix. I see no evidence that he could be. But he has to be a short-term fix or he'll be under huge pressure come November.

I like Moshiri but I do believe you're right there - Lampard was appointed solely because of his likeable personality and the fact he wasn't Benitez or Vitor Pereira. I'll give him his due he's completely swooned a fanbase based on nothing more than his cheeky cockney patter.

What frustates me is that due to his name he's been given two of the biggest jobs in English football (Chelsea and Everton) not done anything at these two clubs (yet) and you have fans say there is no one better oot there when you have managers like Thomas Frank, the bloke at Notts Forest (who's been given an impossible job with the recruitment this summer) even Potterball who have had to work their way up the ladder and prove themselves in lower divisions / smaller clubs.

 

[kenada_blue]

None of that is being questioned? I’m really not sure what point you’re making here, I was just commenting on the fact you appeared to be suggesting teams would need to go on a mad run to overtake us when it’s not the case. In theory at least, 3 of the teams you mentioned could have overtaken us by the end of today.

Point has always been regardless of whatever result it is at Newcastle...it's not a "big game" or "must win" because it's 10 games into a season. It's irrelevant to where the team reaches at the end of the season as no one gets relegated at this stage or win a league, teams fluctuate up and down the league until you see teams adrift. We don't beat Newcastle away...does Palace at home then become a "must win?" Then Fulham away?

 

[BlueStevie35]

I like Moshiri but I do believe you're right there - Lampard was appointed solely because of his likeable personality and the fact he wasn't Benitez or Vitor Pereira. I'll give him his due he's completely swooned a fanbase based on nothing more than his cheeky cockney patter.

What frustates me is that due to his name he's been given two of the biggest jobs in English football (Chelsea and Everton) not done anything at these two clubs (yet) and you have fans say there is no one better oot there when you have managers like Thomas Frank, the bloke at Notts Forest (who's been given an impossible job with the recruitment this summer) even Potterball who have had to work their way up the ladder and prove themselves in lower divisions / smaller clubs.

Pure delusion if you think that was really the sole reason, his predecessor had completely fractured the club from the fans, Pereira wouldn’t have brought it back as quick as Lampard has, that’s why he has backers because he took a massive gamble coming here, knowing what had gone on previous and put his all into trying to get us out of trouble and fans back onside rather than pad his wallet for an easy pay off

 

[Billy Dean]

I think it’s worth context that we’ve lost 4 games out of ten, but of those 4 games 3 were Chelsea, United and Spurs, and we weren’t battered in any of those games.

I don’t see us being near relegation with this defence and midfield. Though we need to have more threat in attack, that much is clear

People are seeing their arses a bit because we've lost 2 on the bounce. But it's 2 top six sides with top class managers. We've got more than enough to stay up this season regardless of the forward line.

 

[Drico]

I like Moshiri but I do believe you're right there - Lampard was appointed solely because of his likeable personality and the fact he wasn't Benitez or Vitor Pereira. I'll give him his due he's completely swooned a fanbase based on nothing more than his cheeky cockney patter.

What frustates me is that due to his name he's been given two of the biggest jobs in English football (Chelsea and Everton) not done anything at these two clubs (yet) and you have fans say there is no one better oot there when you have managers like Thomas Frank, the bloke at Notts Forest (who's been given an impossible job with the recruitment this summer) even Potterball who have had to work their way up the ladder and prove themselves in lower divisions / smaller clubs.

The idea that there is nobody better than Lampard is ridiculous. Don't get me wrong, I'd keep Frank right now (even though I would never have appointed him in the first place), but Thomas Frank is definitely a more impressive coach (but not "name"). Eddie Howe did a great job for Bournemouth for years, but he wasn't "name" enough for sections of our fanbase despite his demonstrable progresss. Now he's managing a club who, apparently, we cannot be expected to go and take something from on Wednesday, despite only being there slightly longer than Frank has been with us.

Frank has done enough at Everton to be given some time. He has done enough to be given the chance to progress us this season. But he has done nothing to be given a free pass or the "faith" that some seem to demand as if he were a sacred relic of Christianity. He'll be judged on results - just as any Everton manager should be.

 

[BlueStevie35]

The idea that there is nobody better than Lampard is ridiculous. Don't get me wrong, I'd keep Frank right now (even though I would never have appointed him in the first place), but Thomas Frank is definitely a more impressive coach (but not "name"). Eddie Howe did a great job for Bournemouth for years, but he wasn't "name" enough for sections of our fanbase despite his demonstrable progresss. Now he's managing a club who, apparently, we cannot be expected to go and take something from on Wednesday, despite only being there slightly longer than Frank has been with us.

Frank has done enough at Everton to be given some time. He has done enough to be given the chance to progress us this season. But he has done nothing to be given a free pass or the "faith" that some seem to demand as if he were a sacred relic of Christianity. He'll be judged on results - just as any Everton manager should be.

Who’s saying that?

 

[JLW]

Allardyce done the same mate and was catapulted at the first opportunity.

Yes but Allardyce had been managing for over 2 decades so we knew his ceiling and limits and that was it.

Lampard is young and relatively inexperienced so we have no knowledge of how far he can go as a manager, if he doesn't improve us in the next 12-18 months then he goes.
I'm confident he will improve us though.

Arteta is an example of giving a new manager time, (Providing we aren't regressing at an alarming rate) last season he was on the verge of getting sacked now look at them 12 months later.
His methods and style are starting to work, because they stuck with him and give him time.

 

[kenada_blue]

I'm gonna start by saying that I'm a Lampard fan and feel he is doing a good job atm. However, I dont accept we should just lose against Utd and Spurs. Utd battered us on our own patch and Spurs didnt get out of second gear. We set up to try and scrap a draw in both games and got what we deserved. We defend too deep, we dont press and we play at a slow tempo, inviting pressure. It's unsustainable. Newcastle are not in the same bracket as Utd and Spurs, so if we set up the same way against them and slump to another pitiful defeat I'd start to worry. That's why its a huge game for me. We may lose the game but I at least want to see an attempt to win it.

Better finishing probably saw us getting at least a point against Spurs (we've won once in decades away to them).

We took the lead against United and gave away 2 goals and couldn't keep the ball.

Both of these are better footballing sides.

All the other games...a matter of spells in the game (away from home mostly) where we can't keep the ball based on not killing a game off. That's the level we're at at this moment. And guess what....we've lost 1 of those games (Villa).

It's a matter of balance. We "have a go" at Newcastle and say lose 2.0 because we're awful and converting...what would that say?

 

[kenada_blue]

Yes but Allardyce had been managing for over 2 decades so we knew his ceiling and limits and that was it.

Lampard is young and relatively inexperienced so we have no knowledge of how far he can go as a manager, if he doesn't improve us in the next 12-18 months then he goes.
I'm confident he will improve us though.

Arteta is an example of giving a new manager time, (Providing we aren't regressing at an alarming rate) last season he was on the verge of getting sacked now look at them 12 months later.
His methods and style are starting to work, because they stuck with him and give him time.

Shush..let's not talk about giving managers time

 

[d34noj]

We should have scored in the first half but the two efforts on goal were terrible. Absolutely awful to miss the target in those areas.

We had a touch more quality up front, we'd have been going into the break 2-0 up. We got caught pushing forward - and being stupid going anywhere near Kane in the box, one of the worst players in the league for diving.

 

[ChesterBlue]

People are seeing their arses a bit because we've lost 2 on the bounce. But it's 2 top six sides with top class managers. We've got more than enough to stay up this season regardless of the forward line.

I think both were frustrating. Silly mistake for the pen vs Spurs, as they didn’t look remotely like scoring, and us missing big chances. Against United we were very poor after scoring until late in the second half.

Overall there are a fair few teams who are worse than us this season, and after the hard away game against Newcastle we have a good run where we can pick up points, so that’ll be where we see if we’re actually in trouble or not