Formation

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micknick

Player Valuation: £70m
I think a possible change in formation and the way we play could be beneficial to the players we have at our disposal. One system that isnt used very much anymore is the 5-3-2 or 3-5-2 when attacking- I think with the players we have and the area where we need to strengthen it could look a little like this:

Howard
Jags Yobo Lescott
Neville---------------- Baines
Arteta Cars Pienaar
Cahill
Yak

I think that back three would be an absolute brick wall and it will utilise Baines in a position of wing back that I think he could flourish. Neville has proved this season that he can get forward from right back and I believe he too could occupy the wing back position very well.

The midfield could be played with a bit- with ossie dropping in and if Carsley is replaced they can drop in too.

I personally think that formation has the balance of both ample defensive cover and offers alot going forward as well.

 

I think uknightbreed has patented the idea of a 5 man defence with wing-backs.
I think it may work, especially at away games as an alternative to cramming the midfield. It kind of invtes the opposition on to you but you have the personnel to handle it and the creative players then have the space to wreak havoc especially on the break
 
I'm no coach so this is an unqualified guess, but I think the reason no one plays 3-5-2 these days is because of the increased power of full backs in the modern game plus the growth of 4-3-3 from an attacking sense.

Lets imagine we're facing United and they're attacking. In the middle they'll have Rooney who will be marked by three of our centre backs. The one wing back will then have to cope with Nani and Evra on one side and Ronaldo and Brown on the other.

All of the top teams have their main threats coming down the flanks and that's why teams load up the flanks as much as they can in defence. I appreciate that Lescott could fan left, Jags right to aid the wing backs but I suspect it's the above reason that is behind the lack of use for this formation in top football.
 
No-one plays with 3 at the back for a reason, it doesnt work and the 2 full backs (or wing backs as they would be) are simply not strong or skillfull enough to cope in this formation.
A simple 4-5-1 will serve us well in the future as it has in the past
 
yep im a big fan of the 5 man defence.
5311 or 532 or 5131 both look hard formations to break down.

someone mentioned about how it would fair if played against man utd.

well , lets take ronaldo or nani , they would be playing on the wing in say a 442.

in a 451 ronaldo would only have to get past the left back before having a chance to shoot/cross.
this would mean the lcb would have to come across to cover for the lb , leaving space in the center for rooney (for example) to run into.
to stop this happening this could result in our Lm sitting back to help out the Lb , thus making ronaldo's job harder but lessening an attacking option for us.

with the 531 ronaldo would first have to get past the lb then the lcb. if both players are beaten ronaldo would still have 2 cb's and a rb to get past or blocking space for rooney etc to run into.
also the attacking player ,lm , is left as an optimum attacking option.

if the wide midfeild are pinned back helping out the full backs in a 451 , and adding to that carsley being a defencive midfeilder , then it would mean 7 of the 10 outfeild players would be in negative positions , ie defending. leaving only 3 outlets for attack.the striker will surley be isolated due to lack of support.(ring any bells ?)

in the 532/5311/5131 only 5 players are required to be negative (defencive) leaving 5 attacking.
the beauty though is the fact the wing backs can get forward without fear (meaning we have 7 attacking).
or the wing backs can sit back allowing 1 of the cb's to get forward to support the midfeild (6 attacking).
or if needed the cm can sit back to help out the defence as carsley does now.
balance and options !!!!!

imo the 3cb's are comfortable enough on the ball to play 532/5311/5131 and would have many more options around them to play the ball out of our half rather than resort to a hoof ball .

if we let our defence and wing backs deal with the opposing strikers and wingers then our 3 man midfeild would rip apart the 2 cm''s left in an opposing 442 formation.

the strikers would have supply from the wing backs crosses from deep/overlapping the mid. aswell as supply from a rampant midfeild.

of course the opposing team could then push there fullbacks forward to try to overlap our wing backs (utd do this) , but we have the quality defence to handle this + it would leave space at the back for our strikers to run into on the counter.

with the right players im adamant this formation will work.but the question is do we have the players ?

i think we do , although there is a doubt over the wing backs.
i still say baines and neville can both do it. past them 2 though i dont think we have anyone else.

it might not be an orthodox formation but neither was the 451 when we first started to use that.
 
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btw , my 3 formations....

5131
...............howard
........yobo...jags....lescott
neville.........................baines
................carsley
....arteta....cahill..pienaar
..................yak

subs wessels hibbert osman fernandes vaughan

5311
...............howard
........yobo...jags....lescott
neville.........................baines
....arteta..fernandes..pienaar
.................cahill
..................yak

subs wessels hibbert osman carsley vaughan

532
...............howard
........yobo...jags....lescott
neville.........................baines
....arteta..fernandes..pienaar
..............aj.........yak

subs wessels hibbert osman cahill vaughan
 
with the 531 ronaldo would first have to get past the lb then the lcb. if both players are beaten ronaldo would still have 2 cb's and a rb to get past or blocking space for rooney etc to run into.
also the attacking player ,lm , is left as an optimum attacking option.

Like I said, teams attack down the flanks now. So Ronaldo wouldn't be attacking on his own as almost always his full back would be there with him (this is an area we need to improve big time btw). If you look at the top two this year (Chelsea and Man Utd) not to mention Barca et al, they play 4-3-3, and they play it because of its flexibility. Teams often play very different formations when in posession and when out of it. So 4-3-3 in attack becomes 4-5-1 in defence. To make the system work you need real flyers on the flanks, capable of getting up and down all day, plus players in the middle capable of keeping the ball, either with feet in midfield or holding up in the centre forward position.

So lets say in attack Ronaldo and Brown are there for United. Baines is the wing back and Lescott goes over to help out as its 2 on 1 otherwise. Rooney's the centre forward so he's marked by Yobo. Scholes drifts in and is picked up by Jags. Assuming you don't want 2 on 2 at the back Carsley would drop back as well to help out. Anyone picking up Anderson? Your 5 defensive players would soon get over-run.

if the wide midfeild are pinned back helping out the full backs in a 451 , and adding to that carsley being a defencive midfeilder , then it would mean 7 of the 10 outfeild players would be in negative positions , ie defending. leaving only 3 outlets for attack.the striker will surley be isolated due to lack of support.(ring any bells ?)

Like I said, full backs are the key to modern football. If you look at Evra for instance, he's a fantastic athlete and can get both beyond his winger and back to his defensive duties in no time. With the holding midfielder sitting to slow down any immediate counter attacks. This season we've often had a centre back at left back, and a duffer at right back. Liverpool are similarly weak at full back.

imo the 3cb's are comfortable enough on the ball to play 532/5311/5131 and would have many more options around them to play the ball out of our half rather than resort to a hoof ball .

They are, but who would they pass to? If you have a defensive midfielder then he's the first port of call. Carsley hasn't been up to that job thus far and a change in formation won't change that.

That pretty much sums up my request for the summer, some new top notch full backs and a world class holding midfielder that can kick start attacks as well as kick start opposing players into the stands.
 
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