First xi against Tottenham XI who is better?

[Tubey]

Spurs have the larger amount of talented individuals, we have the better cohesive team, Spurs have the better overall squad.

 

[Gibbo4]

Sandro better than Gibbo.

 

[Ihaters]

Absolutely right, its not a heresy to express any opinion other than Baines and Fellaini walk on water. Just because motd drool over them every week doesn't mean that fans who watch every game agree with them. Baines is a brilliant attacking left back, one of the best if not the best in the world, but he benefits from our team being built around him. Pienaar covers his every run (and gives him the one twos back) whilst Distin often covers two positions defensively to make up when Baines can't get back. Defensively I still think he is at times suspect and that has always been the difference between him and Ashley Cole. Watch Cole against Barcelona, defensively perfect, Baines against Liverpool in the semi was getting schooled by Stewart Downing of all people. In the real big games Baines has yet to develop big game mentality (although there's signs that its coming).

Don't be fooled by Pienaar's age or price tag, he's an absolutely outstanding player and blew away Mata and Hazard at Goodison. He always plays consistently well and is positionally perfect both in attack and defense. Him and Osman make our team tick. Baines wa sinjured at the back end of last seaosn yet even with Distin or Neville behind him Pienaar still dominated games and kept the good football. When Pienaar went to Spurs or was cup tied last season Baines looked shaky defensively and less of a forward threat. Baines and Pienaar complement each other but in terms of who is more important for how the team plays then I think its Pienaar.

There's no need for any focus on Fellaini, his performance against Leeds and in any derby match over the last 5 years should be enough to show that he is nowhere near being our best player. He is merely the beneficiary of amazing work from Osman, Pienaar and Baines. In the semi 'world class' Fellaini couldn't get near Lucas and Charlie Adam. Osman schooled Liverpool's midfield three at Goodison earlier this season no problem. That's why Osman is playing centremid for us now and why Fellaini doesn't play there for us or Belgium anymore. Maybe Moyes and the Belgium manager have seen something that no one on here seems to have noticed.

Yep best way to compare players is to highlight the worst games of one and the best games of another and then use those as the players average performance levels.. Great stuff.

 

[Blue 1]

Are people seriously arguing that Pienaar is a better footballer than both Baines and Bale?

/remembers why I've been swerving the Everton forum for a bit

 

[Saint Domingo]

Too many contradictions here. Pienaar is great, and he makes us a much better side dont get me wrong...but unfortunately his end product is nowhere near someone like Mata. Osman also played the semi didnt he? Might have been watching a different game but am pretty sure Charlie Adam didn't school Felli... I think you have forgotten some of the performances Felli has put in for Everton at DM. To be honest criticisng two of the best players we have had in years in felli and baines doesn't make much sense to me.

This is exaclty the point, just because I'm criticising an aspect of Baines's game doesn't mean I don't value him as a player. I even said in my post I think he's one of the best Left Backs in the world. Someone had said that they view Pienaar as more crucial to the team than Baines and I agreed with him because I think whilst we could get another LB no one we have tried out on the left seems to be able to get us playing like Pienaar does.

For Fellaini on the other hand my criticism is linked to my opinion of him as a player. He's decent in the role behind the striker but not much use elsewhere and isn't world class. Osman was stuck out of position on the wing in the semi, that's like saying Jelavic isn't effective if he plays on the wing, of course he wouldn't be. We could barely get the ball off Liverpool in the second half, you can rewrite history if you want but Liverpool's midfield had the comfiest game of the second half of their season there. How many derbies has Fellaini played in? Aside from red cards has he impacted any of them? No. That is not what world class players do. From what I remember of Fellaini he started off in the attacking role in his first season and got a fair few number of goals, he was then largely injured for a period before Arteta was then sold and Fellaini and Rodwell made one of the most dour midfield partnerships I've seen at Everton. He was everpresent at the start of last season in a period generally described as one of the worst under Moyes in terms of the football on display. If a player is world class this doesn't happen! A world class player does not get given the run around by Leeds' midfield. Do you think Moyes hasn't seen this? Why do you think that when we're short of holding mids this season Neville or Hitzlsperger gets a game? Why not just move Fellaini back and play him there? Because Moyes, along with the Belgium manager I suspect has realised that he does not have the tactical nouse to play there.

Its easy to forget his performances at DM becaus ethey were so uninspiring, people see the motd highlights of him heading goal kicks away or pirouetting aorund Bellamy and think he's some sort of midfield collosus up there with Vieira or Makele. It was an absolute illusion, he was always out of position chasing shadows, to make things worse he used to retreat on goalkicks right on top of our CBs to head their keepers kick right into the place where he should have been in midfield. Whenever he di dget it he did no more than control it and pass it backwards. Contrast this with Gibson who can turn us from defence into attack with one long range pass, or can pick one into the feet of Jelavic. Fellaini didn't have this range, he'd get it and give it to Rodwell and just stand there admiring it, no movement into space or anything. Fellaini improved the back half of last season once Gibson played holding mid and Fellaini was freed just to roam forward. He's probably not going to get that role back as Osman has been our midfield king this year. That's why he's uptop, and he's playing quite well there, but not world class.

 

[Brennan]

Erm, i seem to remember Baines still being absolutely boss for a season after Pienaar left.

Total myth that he is what makes Baines better than Cole. Baines is a better player offensively and defensively.

 

[stericho]

Howard vs Lloris - Lloris
Coleman vs Walker - Walker
Jagielka vs Gallas - Jags
Distin vs Caulker - Caulker
Baines vs Vertonghen - Baines
Mirallas vs Lennon - Mirallas
Gibson vs Parker - Parker
Osman vs Dembele - Dembele
Pienaar vs Bale -Bale
Fellaini vs Adebayor - Fellaini
Jelavic vs Defoe - Defoe

 

[moyeslovechild]

--------- Lloris
Coleman Jags Vertonghen Baines
Bale Dembele Sandro Pienaar
---------Fellaini
-----------Defoe

Sandro is better than Parker, really good DM. Maybe Gibson should be in there instead of Dembele but went for that Belgian connection with Fellaini. Stuck Bale on the right to keep the Bainesy/Pienaar connection. Defoe would thrive on the knockdowns from Fellaini and would prob form the better partnership than with Jela

 

[Huyton Layne]

Walker is so much better than Coleman imo. He's a good defender, goes forward well, good pace, good crossing and a thunderbolt of a shot. He's a step up from Seamus who could still improve given that he didn't come through a pro youth system.

 

[Roztitute]

Walker is so much better than Coleman imo. He's a good defender, goes forward well, good pace, good crossing and a thunderbolt of a shot. He's a step up from Seamus who could still improve given that he didn't come through a pro youth system.

Totally agree although what's happeend to Walker this season? Haven't seen much of him. Last season he was superb. Coleman is doing well though.

 

[everton]

You're right. A thread discussing a fictional Spurs and Everton starting eleven would normally be anything but hypothetical.

Okay I worded it badly, I meant that Everton's first eleven is very much hypothetical (in contrast to that of Spurs).

I think my point stands regardless. Of our players to get into the team, Mirallas and Gibson are regularly injured, making the 'hypothetical team, if put into practice' more likely to involve up to 7 or 8 Spurs players.

It would be something like:

Lloris

Walker Jags Vertonghen Baines

Mirallas Sandro/Gibson Dembele Bale

Fellaini

Jelavic/Defoe

 

[Brennan]

Okay I worded it badly, I meant that Everton's first eleven is very much hypothetical (in contrast to that of Spurs).

I think my point stands regardless. Of our players to get into the team, Mirallas and Gibson are regularly injured, making the 'hypothetical team, if put into practice' more likely to involve up to 7 or 8 Spurs players.

It would be something like:

Lloris

Walker Jags Vertonghen Baines

Mirallas Sandro/Gibson Dembele Bale

Fellaini

Jelavic/Defoe

Just having a little joke mate x

 

[toffeestillidie]

anyone else think dempsey is better than parker?

 

[Yidarmey]

Hey guys

Spurs fan here just wanting to go over some figures.

tottenham are flat track bullies they beat rubbish cant beat anyone good unless they catch them cold. there best xi isnt that good to be brutally honest considering theyve spent nearly 400m

Not true

Lloris - £11,800,000
Walker - £4,000,000
Gallas - £0
Caulker - £0
Verty - £9,000,00
Lennon - £800,000
Parker - £5,000,000
Dembele - £15,000,00
Bale - £7,500,000
Ade - £5,000,000
Defoe - £15,000,000

Total: £73,100,000

 

[Deloodid]

lol what about players u paid big money for and cant make the team?