Financial Fair Play investigation

[Bkk Andy]

So what? That means nothing. I seen some idiots spouting similar nonsense in the ;newcast;e; thread in World football, after they beat Sheff U 8-0. "We couldn't even beat Sheff U, wahahahaha" they cried. However, we'd not long just beaten Brentford away, who had also recently got a point at St James'.

See my point? I thought everybody over the age of 6 knew not too read too much in to individual results. But there you go; Shows what I know,

People are saying that we've struggled to get anything against those few teams we are supposed to be better than. If you're not beating the teams that you're better than it means you need to beat the teams that you're worse than.

See my point? I thought everybody over the age of 6 would understand why some fans are concerned at yet another relegation battle.

 

[WestStandLower]

Having worked for HMRC I have a some albeit it limited knowledge about matters taxation but the IT management acts are so vast and encompassing that like the law individuals specialise in specific areas and Corporation tax is one such area.

By and large most football clubs have significant losses carried forward but there are special conditions around loans and tax due on the interest that has to be reported on a form CT61. The reality is the process is very much bread and butter and it really is unlikely that requirements in this area would be missed if they were than Evertons in house accounts team, Company Accountants and Auditors need replacing and replaced like yesterday

All clubs have to submit audited accounts to the PL but they also have to send significant in year documents including income and expenditure projections and even at year end and in advance of final and audited accounts the PL require a whole gaggle of past and future financial information and projections.

Is it possible that there was an error in the way a loan or tax thereon was reported ? Of course it is. Is it likely? I find that hard to believe particularly if the error straddles more than one CT return.

Companies like individuals on occasions have cause to re visit submitted tax returns. Most amendments are processed with little fuss and whilst they may attract a charge to interest on tax paid late most penalties that potentially are due are often reduced following mitigation if the error is flagged up by the taxpayer as opposed to being identified by HMRC.

The PL aren’t part of the process when it comes to filing and audit of tax returns they do work hand in hand with HMRC when it comes to matters like payment of PAYE/NIC, VAT and yes Corporation Tax on time but most if not all of the numbers in this area are supplied by the clubs and even HMRC operate a policy of file now check later accepting submitted information in “good faith “

So back to the PL charge .Of course it could all revolve around a loan or loans but if recorded in companies records as being a loan and there is a paper trail as to how that loan was used and even if there is a tax issue I cant see there would be any debate and surely Everton would just have admitted the charge .

 

[lesbattersby]

Having worked for HMRC I have a some albeit it limited knowledge about matters taxation but the IT management acts are so vast and encompassing that like the law individuals specialise in specific areas and Corporation tax is one such area.

By and large most football clubs have significant losses carried forward but there are special conditions around loans and tax due on the interest that has to be reported on a form CT61. The reality is the process is very much bread and butter and it really is unlikely that requirements in this area would be missed if they were than Evertons in house accounts team, Company Accountants and Auditors need replacing and replaced like yesterday

All clubs have to submit audited accounts to the PL but they also have to send significant in year documents including income and expenditure projections and even at year end and in advance of final and audited accounts the PL require a whole gaggle of past and future financial information and projections.

Is it possible that there was an error in the way a loan or tax thereon was reported ? Of course it is. Is it likely? I find that hard to believe particularly if the error straddles more than one CT return.

Companies like individuals on occasions have cause to re visit submitted tax returns. Most amendments are processed with little fuss and whilst they may attract a charge to interest on tax paid late most penalties that potentially are due are often reduced following mitigation if the error is flagged up by the taxpayer as opposed to being identified by HMRC.

The PL aren’t part of the process when it comes to filing and audit of tax returns they do work hand in hand with HMRC when it comes to matters like payment of PAYE/NIC, VAT and yes Corporation Tax on time but most if not all of the numbers in this area are supplied by the clubs and even HMRC operate a policy of file now check later accepting submitted information in “good faith “

So back to the PL charge .Of course it could all revolve around a loan or loans but if recorded in companies records as being a loan and there is a paper trail as to how that loan was used and even if there is a tax issue I cant see there would be any debate and surely Everton would just have admitted the charge .

Booooooooooooo

 

[Blue Smoke]

Is it a case that the independent commission simply rule guilty or not guilty? (And then if its guilty then its over to epl to dish out what they want)?
Or does the commission have a say, or advice, on the scale of punishment ?

 

[Blue Smoke]

Are they also able to publicly explain or help with confusion over whether any of our misdemeanours affected transfer budget or wages which would affect leicester and Burnley claims that it has affected our football side of things?

 

[John from Bootle]

People are saying that we've struggled to get anything against those few teams we are supposed to be better than. If you're not beating the teams that you're better than it means you need to beat the teams that you're worse than.

See my point? I thought everybody over the age of 6 would understand why some fans are concerned at yet another relegation battle.

Very witty, I must say.

Doesn't change the fact that saying we're not better than Luton because they beat us is a load of bollocks.

Try again.

 

[HalfTimeSayers]

Are they also able to publicly explain or help with confusion over whether any of our misdemeanours affected transfer budget or wages which would affect leicester and Burnley claims that it has affected our football side of things?

In very basic terms it doesn’t matter. The more you pay Bob/Brenda on reception at Finch Farm, the less you have to pay/spend on a new striker whilst staying within the limits. Other clubs could say everything affects squad spending, even if the item that puts you over the limit is nothing to do with football.

 

[Blue Smoke]

In very basic terms it doesn’t matter. The more you pay Bob/Brenda on reception at Finch Farm, the less you have to pay/spend on a new striker whilst staying within the limits. Other clubs could say everything affects squad spending, even if the item that puts you over the limit is nothing to do with football.

But my understanding was that this was a mistake on our part about not declaring or adding/allowing for interest
on a loan that we apparently didn't think needed allowing for. Or something like that. (Talksport)

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

Who knew Martin Samuels had a conscience?

 

[evertony]

But my understanding was that this was a mistake on our part about not declaring or adding/allowing for interest
on a loan that we apparently didn't think needed allowing for. Or something like that. (Talksport)

With our club owner being a professional accountant it just sums us up that they've 'made a mistake' or 'didn't think it needed allowing for'.

That said, I do find it bizarre that our Accountant Owner, the Club Accountant, our CFO and our independent auditors/accountants didn't notice the error during the creation and submission of those accounts. And that the Premier League effectively underwrote them originally.

A cynic might suggest there's more at play and there's a desire within certain circles to see Everton (the stubborn turd that just wouldn't be flushed) relegated.

 

[Jo3Fr3sh]

Where did the Premier League get the 12 points deduction from? I don't see any coverage on this tbh

 

[Moderatelywarmwater]

Where did the Premier League get the 12 points deduction from? I don't see any coverage on this tbh

If you read the original report, it says a points deduction of “up to 12 points”. I think people (including many journalists) are misinterpreting this as the PL asking for a 12 point deduction. To me, it seems that they may have asked for a points deduction. The maximum points deduction is 12 points I believe.
I suspect it’s just a massive case of Chinese whispers

 

[Jo3Fr3sh]

A cynic might suggest there's more at play and there's a desire within certain circles to see Everton (the stubborn turd that just wouldn't be flushed) relegated.

I got that feeling. Especially the day after Kenwright buys the farm.

 

[Ring master]

If you read the original report, it says a points deduction of “up to 12 points”. I think people (including many journalists) are misinterpreting this as the PL asking for a 12 point deduction. To me, it seems that they may have asked for a points deduction. The maximum points deduction is 12 points I believe.
I suspect it’s just a massive case of Chinese whispers

One whisper of a deduction, has turned into a full blown - it's a guarantee points deduction from some - I stick to as always a fine as most for me, if we even did anything.

 

[arch stanton]

With our club owner being a professional accountant it just sums us up that they've 'made a mistake' or 'didn't think it needed allowing for'.

That said, I do find it bizarre that our Accountant Owner, the Club Accountant, our CFO and our independent auditors/accountants didn't notice the error during the creation and submission of those accounts. And that the Premier League effectively underwrote them originally.

A cynic might suggest there's more at play and there's a desire within certain circles to see Everton (the stubborn turd that just wouldn't be flushed) relegated.

my experience of accountants (albeit quite limited) leads me to understand there are safe accountants, and accountants that push the boundaries of the rules (ask Jimmy Carr and other celebs) so the fact Mosh is an accountant doesnt really help. I doubt he would have poured over the books himself but he may have signed off on some edgey practices.