Fans booed and wanted Howard Kendall sacked in Jan 83/84

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Khalekan said:
Roberto has bought himself nowt but our affection due to three or four glorious months from November to March last season when he gave us a glimpse of what EFC can be all about.

Last season is a foreign country.

We live in the here and now and at this precise moment in time we are in danger of having our worst season in living memory......albeit I don't think we will go down but you know what, I wouldn't rule it out on current results and, more worryingly, current performance levels.

I am not worried about last season.....it is next season which worries me and whether it is Chelsea or Charlton who come here to play a league fixture.

Don't get me wrong......I desperately want to see Bobby turn this round and go on to become what we all thought he was twelve short months ago.

For all I am looking at him more critically these days I am still very fond of the guy and I am proud that he is the face of our club and I hope he continues for many years to come.

But right now he is looking like Mike Walker Mk. 2.

And I have no doubt that if this conversation is still pertinent after the Baggies game Bobby is going to be under severe pressure from both the fans and the board.

Hopefully though, it will not be.

Let's beat Hull on Thursday and start looking at the sky again.

;)
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Absolute rubbish.
 
it will all be ok ....better now to see the players who are poor and hopefully roberto will see the same and get rid ...we are loosing in the main by fine margins [ bar southampton] and bad refereeing decisions ..3-0 win against hull and 6000 tickets for bern and it will all be grand again COYB
 
Khalekan said:
Great response.

Cogent, reasoned and well thought out.

A happy new year to you and all, sir :p
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Here's your response @Khalekan .

Last season is not 'a foreign country'. Last season was the best league season we have had for 27 years - most points and most wins.

The things that worked last season were no fluke. You can't fluke a full season of games.

Last season we had a settled side - we didn't have the spine of the time missing for most of the season. We didn't have the goalkeeper and the captain both going off injured at half time in a crucial game. We didn't lose the influential Mirallas and hugely promising Stones for months at a time through injury. We didn't have Distin and Barry's form declining hugely. We didn't have key players missing through suspension. We didn't have extra games (and travelling in the Europa), although that's not a major reason behind everything. We weren't on the receiving end of some of the worst refereeing decisions in years - opposition players not being punished until retrospective action is later taken, by which it is too late (Cisse). We weren't not getting given stonewall penalties, or having borderline decisions going against us.

Martinez is not 'looking like the new Mike Walker'. He proved he could do the job last season.

I lived through Mike Walker. It is burnt into my memory. He was the worst manager we have had in my 35+ years of watching us, 30 years of those as a season ticket holder.

Some stats. Mike Walker managed us for 35 games - won 6, drew 11, lost 18. Win ratio of 17%, amongst the worst in Everton managerial history.

David Moyes managed us for 426 games - won 173, drew 123, lost 130. Win ratio of 41%.

Martinez in his first season managed us for 42 games - won 24, drew 9, lost 9. Win ratio of 57%.
Second season so far, he has managed us for 26 games - won 8, drew 8, lost 10. Win ratio of 47%.
Overall thus far, Martinez has managed for 68 games - won 32, drew 17, lost 19. Win ratio of 47%.

To even compare Martinez to Walker is utter laughable.

And Martinez stats - even accounting for the crapness for this season - are better than Moyes were.

Even in Moyes' best ever season, 2007/2008 - played 54 games, won 30, drew 9, lost 15, win ratio of 56% - that is worse that what Martinez achieved last season (win ratio of 57%).

And a Happy New Year to you too.
 
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BoysInBlue said:
Here's your response @Khalekan .

Last season is not 'a foreign country'. Last season was the best league season we have had for 27 years - most points and most wins.

The things that worked last season were no fluke. You can't fluke a full season of games.

Last season we had a settled side - we didn't have the spine of the time missing for most of the season. We didn't have the goalkeeper and the captain both going off injured at half time in a crucial game. We didn't lose the influential Mirallas and hugely promising Stones for months at a time through injury. We didn't have Distin and Barry's form declining hugely. We didn't have key players missing through suspension. We didn't have extra games (and travelling in the Europa), although that's not a major reason behind everything. We weren't on the receiving end of some of the worst refereeing decisions in years - opposition players not being punished until retrospective action is later taken, by which it is too late (Cisse). We weren't not getting given stonewall penalties, or having borderline decisions going against us.

Martinez is not 'looking like the new Mike Walker'. He proved he could do the job last season.

I lived through Mike Walker. It is burnt into my memory. He was the worst manager we have had in my 35+ years of watching us, 30 years of those as a season ticket holder.

Some stats. Mike Walker managed us for 35 games - won 6, drew 11, lost 18. Win ratio of 17%, amongst the worst in Everton managerial history.

David Moyes managed us for 426 games - won 173, drew 123, lost 130. Win ratio of 41%.

Martinez in his first season managed us for 42 games - won 24, drew 9, lost 9. Win ratio of 57%.
Second season so far, he has managed us for 26 games - won 8, drew 8, lost 10. Win ratio of 47%.
Overall thus far, Martinez has managed for 68 games - won 32, drew 17, lost 19. Win ratio of 47%.

To even compare Martinez to Walker is utter laughable.

And Martinez stats - even accounting for the crapness for this season - are better than Moyes were.

Even in Moyes' best ever season, 2007/2008 - played 54 games, won 30, drew 9, lost 15, win ratio of 56% - that is worse that what Martinez achieved last season (win ratio of 57%).

And a Happy New Year to you too.
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You are a tetchy fellow.

But at least my rebuke stung you into action.

Hopefully in the future you will remember to make a proper response to people having the decency to debate with you in a civil manner rather than dismiss their comments as "rubbish" just because they are at variance with your own views.

None of which renders your synopsis any the more relevant, though.

What happened last season is of absolutely no value right now as we sit on the cusp of a relegation dogfight and a much esteemed manager sits on the sidelines looking like a rabbit caught in a stoat's glare.

(Except to give us a nice, warm fuzzy feeling ad we recall how it used to be back in the autumn and winter of last season :))

And you ranting away like Rumpekstiltskin on speed will not make it so.
 
BoysInBlue said:
Here's your response @Khalekan .

Last season is not 'a foreign country'. Last season was the best league season we have had for 27 years - most points and most wins.

The things that worked last season were no fluke. You can't fluke a full season of games.

Last season we had a settled side - we didn't have the spine of the time missing for most of the season. We didn't have the goalkeeper and the captain both going off injured at half time in a crucial game. We didn't lose the influential Mirallas and hugely promising Stones for months at a time through injury. We didn't have Distin and Barry's form declining hugely. We didn't have key players missing through suspension. We didn't have extra games (and travelling in the Europa), although that's not a major reason behind everything. We weren't on the receiving end of some of the worst refereeing decisions in years - opposition players not being punished until retrospective action is later taken, by which it is too late (Cisse). We weren't not getting given stonewall penalties, or having borderline decisions going against us.

Martinez is not 'looking like the new Mike Walker'. He proved he could do the job last season.

I lived through Mike Walker. It is burnt into my memory. He was the worst manager we have had in my 35+ years of watching us, 30 years of those as a season ticket holder.

Some stats. Mike Walker managed us for 35 games - won 6, drew 11, lost 18. Win ratio of 17%, amongst the worst in Everton managerial history.

David Moyes managed us for 426 games - won 173, drew 123, lost 130. Win ratio of 41%.

Martinez in his first season managed us for 42 games - won 24, drew 9, lost 9. Win ratio of 57%.
Second season so far, he has managed us for 26 games - won 8, drew 8, lost 10. Win ratio of 47%.
Overall thus far, Martinez has managed for 68 games - won 32, drew 17, lost 19. Win ratio of 47%.

To even compare Martinez to Walker is utter laughable.

And Martinez stats - even accounting for the crapness for this season - are better than Moyes were.

Even in Moyes' best ever season, 2007/2008 - played 54 games, won 30, drew 9, lost 15, win ratio of 56% - that is worse that what Martinez achieved last season (win ratio of 57%).

And a Happy New Year to you too.
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If those stats are correct and up to yesterday for Roberto, then maybe there is hope after all.
It also makes me wonder what Howard's win stats were like....
 
Khalekan said:
You are a tetchy fellow.

But at least my rebuke stung you into action.

Hopefully in the future you will remember to make a proper response to people having the decency to debate with you in a civil manner rather than dismiss their comments as "rubbish" just because they are at variance with your own views.

None of which renders your synopsis any the more relevant, though.

What happened last season is of absolutely no value right now as we sit on the cusp of a relegation dogfight and a much esteemed manager sits on the sidelines looking like a rabbit caught in a stoat's glare.

(Except to give us a nice, warm fuzzy feeling ad we recall how it used to be back in the autumn and winter of last season :))

And you ranting away like Rumpekstiltskin on speed will not make it so.
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I only give considered replies to posts I believe to be worthy of it.

You dismiss facts as not relevant, and still haven't explained your utterly ridiculous Mike Walker comparison. I think both you and I know that you're talking garbage.

Listing facts and reasons and giving statistical evidence as to why is not 'ranting away'. Something you clearly have no response to, so naturally you have adopted a school teacher like stance and have gone for the personal rebuke/putdown approach. Nice.

Come back when you have a decent argument.
 
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BernieWright13 said:
Cheers. Be very interesting that on H 1st time around
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@BernieWright13

Kendall's record first time round. Makes for interesting reading:

1981/1982 Played 46 - Won 18, Drew 14, Lost 14 - Win Ratio 39%

1982/1983 Played 51 - Won 22, Drew 13, Lost 16 - Win Ratio 43%

1983/1984 Played 61 - Won 27, Drew 20, Lost 14 - Win Ratio 44%

1984/1985 Played 61 - Won 42, Drew 9, Lost 10 - Win Ratio 69%

1985/1986 Played 61 - Won 39, Drew 11, Lost 11 - Win Ratio 64%

1986/1987 Played 55 - Won 33, Drew 10, Lost 12 - Win Ratio 60%

Overall record for the 6 seasons:

Played 335 games. Won 181, Drew 77, Lost 77. Win Ratio 54%


Conclusion: In his pomp (the final 3 seasons, particularly 84/85), Kendall's win ratio truly was 'phenomenal'.

Martinez's win ratio from last season of 57% compares quite favourably, and indeed does beat Kendall's record over the entire 6 season spell (54%), although Kendall clearly had consistency and longevity. Maybe in time Martinez can match that. Currently Martinez win ratio right now (see other post above) is 47%.

I think my main conclusion is that it would be utter folly to get rid of Martinez at the first sign of trouble. He deserves a chance to put things right. And yeah, that includes beyond this season.
 
SamMurphy said:



Watch from 2:45 on wards, Everton were 18th sitting on 28 points after 23 games just 8 months before our treble winning season began.

"We couldn't score goals, we weren't winning games, confidence was very low and we had a young side who weren't looking forward to playing especially at Goodison Park" Howard Kendall

Imagine if Phillip carter shared the view of many fans and sacked Kendall, Kopites probably would have had 2 more titles in their cabinet.

"I have brought Howard Kendall to this club on the basis that I thought he was a young man with tremendous potential" Phillip Carter

Story sound familiar ?
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Carter ? The man who made all the decisions which led to the demise of EFC as major force in English football ?

That was about the only decision he got right.
 

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