FA Cup or 5th?

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Do I want a trophy? Of course. Do I want a high finish in the league? Of course.
Let's be realistic here though, the chances of us finishing 5th are slimmer than us wining the FA cup. We can win the FA Cup we are favourites, in the league I have no reason to believe why we can't get a run of games together and push for a higher finish. Martinez deserves the stick he gets for the inconsistency however he deserves credit for the cup runs we have had. Should of held out against city in the Capital One Cup, but that's gone now. Focus on the FA Cup and as fans, push the team on as much as we can!
 

I'm going to repeat myself again. This is a perception question. A psychological question.

The question was not "which would you prefer"? It was not "Do you want to win the cup?". Jesus, Mary, and Joseph we ALL want to win the cup. Whether we are 1st, 5th, or 18th. I'm not sure where you all got the idea I don't value it. One of the most depressing days of my life was when we lost to Chelsea.

The question was does a cup win render the league campaign moot...all forgiven? Would you feel just as good going into next season with 12th and a cup win or 5th challenging for top four?

I'm not saying the answer can't still be "cup". Several have given reasons why. I'm asking you hypothetically, if we had finished 5th, and played more consistently over 9 months, would you feel better about our prospects going forward than Cup run, worse, or would it be the same?

I'm sort of bewildered why that is such a hard question to grasp??
 
Typically I would suggest league performance is more likely to correlate with future league performance although it's not really the case.

18 of the last 20 FA Cups were won by a team usually in the top 4/5.

How often does a team hit fourth and not repeat? If we give Spurs and the RS enough credit to at least say they are in the general mix then IIRC it would be Everton, Newcastle and Leeds ... so three teams in 20 years.

Two outliers v. three. Not much difference really. Ultimately I need *a* sign we're moving in the right direction.

5th would work.

A Cup would work.

Basically if past performance indicates the future (which it rather famously does not) and we win a Cup there is a 10% chance we're Wigan/Portsmouth or a 90% chance we've arrived as a force.
 
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johnnydawg68 said:
I'm going to repeat myself again. This is a perception question. A psychological question.

The question was not "which would you prefer"? It was not "Do you want to win the cup?". Jesus, Mary, and Joseph we ALL want to win the cup. Whether we are 1st, 5th, or 18th. I'm not sure where you all got the idea I don't value it. One of the most depressing days of my life was when we lost to Chelsea.

The question was does a cup win render the league campaign moot...all forgiven? Would you feel just as good going into next season with 12th and a cup win or 5th challenging for top four?

I'm not saying the answer can't still be "cup". Several have given reasons why. I'm asking you hypothetically, if we had finished 5th, and played more consistently over 9 months, would you feel better about our prospects going forward than Cup run, worse, or would it be the same?

I'm sort of bewildered why that is such a hard question to grasp??
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The bit in bold - for me no.

12th and a cup win - is a ok season. 5th and a cup win is a really good season. I think realistically the best players want to be looking at playing in the champions league (as pathetic as that sounds), thats where we should be pushing for, and finishing 12th with this team isn't good enough in my book.
 

johnnydawg68 said:
I'm going to repeat myself again. This is a perception question. A psychological question.

The question was not "which would you prefer"? It was not "Do you want to win the cup?". Jesus, Mary, and Joseph we ALL want to win the cup. Whether we are 1st, 5th, or 18th. I'm not sure where you all got the idea I don't value it. One of the most depressing days of my life was when we lost to Chelsea.

The question was does a cup win render the league campaign moot...all forgiven? Would you feel just as good going into next season with 12th and a cup win or 5th challenging for top four?

I'm not saying the answer can't still be "cup". Several have given reasons why. I'm asking you hypothetically, if we had finished 5th, and played more consistently over 9 months, would you feel better about our prospects going forward than Cup run, worse, or would it be the same?

I'm sort of bewildered why that is such a hard question to grasp??
Click to expand...


Absolutely nobody reads the 1st post in a thread before replying. Therefore people are replying to your thread title. Question was "FA Cup or 5th"

I'm sort of bewildered that you can't see that. Is that such a difficult concept to grasp??
 
johnnydawg68 said:
A variation on a question we've discussed here over the years, substituting 5th for 4th this time.

Before you have a go I'm quite aware we haven't won the cup. If we don't the question is moot.

But would you feel differently if we had played more consistently in the league and finished 5th again, which isn't rare for us, but been eliminated from the cup?

Would you consider the season a disappointment, even if we end up in exactly the same place?

This is more a psychological question than anything. I'm curious. I think I probably would feel better with 5th, but then we don't get trophies for 5th.
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Cup win every day of the week Jdawg, i have absolutely no clue what i did whenever we finished 5th and what not, but God i can tell you exactly where i was and who i was with the moment we lifted the cup - fair enough where i went and who i ended up with later that night i have no idea ;)

Dunno if yu've ever seen us win anything mate, but i'm kinda guessing you haven't by the question, you won't have felt anything ever like it if we go on to win the cup truly
 
johnnydawg68 said:
I'm going to repeat myself again. This is a perception question. A psychological question.

The question was not "which would you prefer"? It was not "Do you want to win the cup?". Jesus, Mary, and Joseph we ALL want to win the cup. Whether we are 1st, 5th, or 18th. I'm not sure where you all got the idea I don't value it. One of the most depressing days of my life was when we lost to Chelsea.

The question was does a cup win render the league campaign moot...all forgiven? Would you feel just as good going into next season with 12th and a cup win or 5th challenging for top four?

I'm not saying the answer can't still be "cup". Several have given reasons why. I'm asking you hypothetically, if we had finished 5th, and played more consistently over 9 months, would you feel better about our prospects going forward than Cup run, worse, or would it be the same?

I'm sort of bewildered why that is such a hard question to grasp??
Click to expand...


It's a bit mad that you think some fans want to not win a cup, if I'm honest. I'd say all fans want to win the cup
 
johnnydawg68 said:
I'm going to repeat myself again. This is a perception question. A psychological question.

The question was not "which would you prefer"? It was not "Do you want to win the cup?". Jesus, Mary, and Joseph we ALL want to win the cup. Whether we are 1st, 5th, or 18th. I'm not sure where you all got the idea I don't value it. One of the most depressing days of my life was when we lost to Chelsea.

The question was does a cup win render the league campaign moot...all forgiven? Would you feel just as good going into next season with 12th and a cup win or 5th challenging for top four?

I'm not saying the answer can't still be "cup". Several have given reasons why. I'm asking you hypothetically, if we had finished 5th, and played more consistently over 9 months, would you feel better about our prospects going forward than Cup run, worse, or would it be the same?

I'm sort of bewildered why that is such a hard question to grasp??
Click to expand...

We have a lot of young, talented players who are either looking for confidence, paydays, or perhaps both. Couple that with the 21 year trophy drought and you could maybe see how some would think that glory can't be had at Everton.

Winning the cup will do more to keep them here than finishing a few places higher in the league but falling short of the goal anyway.
 
johnnydawg68 said:
I'm going to repeat myself again. This is a perception question. A psychological question.

The question was not "which would you prefer"? It was not "Do you want to win the cup?". Jesus, Mary, and Joseph we ALL want to win the cup. Whether we are 1st, 5th, or 18th. I'm not sure where you all got the idea I don't value it. One of the most depressing days of my life was when we lost to Chelsea.

The question was does a cup win render the league campaign moot...all forgiven? Would you feel just as good going into next season with 12th and a cup win or 5th challenging for top four?

I'm not saying the answer can't still be "cup". Several have given reasons why. I'm asking you hypothetically, if we had finished 5th, and played more consistently over 9 months, would you feel better about our prospects going forward than Cup run, worse, or would it be the same?

I'm sort of bewildered why that is such a hard question to grasp??
Click to expand...


Here's a tip.

You see when you pose a question and then are "bewildered" that people can't "grasp" it, the chances are the question itself is the problem.

One would have thought the question was pretty simple....it says "Cup or 5th" in the title.

Not surprisingly, the vast majority of people have said they would choose the Cup.

One would think that would be the end of it.

But no.....we find there is a whole sub context to the question.....and the bloke who posed it is "bewildered" that the rest of us aren't interested in psycho analysing ourselves to know what we we really feel about it.

:Blink:


You gotta love GOT :celebrate:
 

I'd rather win the cup than finish second. Nobody remembers losers. The whole point of football is to win trophies, something we seem to have forgotten for the last 20 years.
 
A cup win would be about the only way to make a 12th place finish NOT feel like an awful season. Once you get to 9th place or better alongside a cup win, the season starts to look alright. 6th or better and a cup win is a great season. Equally, sixth or better and NO cup win is a good season.

So in answer to the OP: a Cup win doesn't completely outweigh the stain of a 12th place finish... but it's better than coming 12th and NOT winning a Cup.
 
My attitude has changed a little. If take the cup over 5th certainly and by doing so buy the manager more time.

Just the realist in me in seeing the chance of winning the cup grow massively now , can't hold a trophy and then still get rid. Granted a semi final is nothing but a chance and a good chance at the cup is something Martinez will have achieved here more than his predecessor , who incidentally was based on league places instead.
 
Cup, Maybe we can make Liverpool a bid for their premiere league champions coaches that they had to mothball, for our Parade.
 
Hey! What about this: if you had to choose between being the top scientist in your field or getting mad cow disease, what would it be?
 

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