Experimentation

[Tubey]

I've said it several times on here and been laughed at for it - we should be starting out 4-5-1 for 15 minutes tops - just to keep a solid shape to avoid the early sucker punch against the better teams - then push Cahill up top in a 4-4-2 to pressure the opposition. It was crystal clear what we should have done against Chelsea but once again it took going a goal behind for Dithering Dave to do something.

It's a fantasy scenario though. Moyes doesn't know the meaning of the word positive. We actually play nice football at times, but it breaks down 20 yards out because we're simply not used to playing off a forward and making runs off him; something a team with a front two partnership naturally does.

As for an actual team..

Howard

Neville/Coleman (Depending on opposition, Coleman against "weaker")
Distin
Jagielka
Baines

Pienaar
Fellaini
Rodwell
Arteta

Cahill
Yak/Beckford/Saha (Rotation)

 

[Summerskin]

Would you put Arteta out right?

Too right I would, he's pants elsewhere.

 

[Phil Neville Superstar]

I've said it several times on here and been laughed at for it - we should be starting out 4-5-1 for 15 minutes tops - just to keep a solid shape to avoid the early sucker punch against the better teams - then push Cahill up top in a 4-4-2 to pressure the opposition. It was crystal clear what we should have done against Chelsea but once again it took going a goal behind for Dithering Dave to do something.

It's a fantasy scenario though. Moyes doesn't know the meaning of the word positive. We actually play nice football at times, but it breaks down 20 yards out because we're simply not used to playing off a forward and making runs off him; something a team with a front two partnership naturally does.

As for an actual team..

Howard

Neville/Coleman (Depending on opposition, Coleman against "weaker")
Distin
Jagielka
Baines

Pienaar
Fellaini
Rodwell
Arteta

Cahill
Yak/Beckford/Saha (Rotation)

Pienaar RM and Arteta LM?

 

[ToxtethBlue]

If we where going to stick him outwide, playing him on the left would be the better option. Pienaar is more mobile, and a bit more suited to playing on his natural side because of this, and Arteta would provide a similar link up play and understanding with Baines, aswell as being able to cut inside and help us control the game.

Not that it will happen though, nor should it. Arteta is a top CM, and Rodwell is nowhere near ready to be taking on such a demanding position on a regular basis. He's a very talented player, and will be an excellent, but in terms of positional sense, off the ball awareness and all round consistency, he still needs work. Although saying all this, it'll be good to see him getting a few games under his belt, and it'll help his development in the long term.

 

[Tubey]

Pienaar RM and Arteta LM?

Nope, I just wrote it wrong

Baines/Pienaar combination on the left all the way until Pienaar goes!

 

[Rook]

If we where going to stick him outwide, playing him on the left would be the better option. Pienaar is more mobile, and a bit more suited to playing on his natural side because of this, and Arteta would provide a similar link up play and understanding with Baines, aswell as being able to cut inside and help us control the game.

Not that it will happen though, nor should it. Arteta is a top CM, and Rodwell is nowhere near ready to be taking on such a demanding position on a regular basis. He's a very talented player, and will be an excellent, but in terms of positional sense, off the ball awareness and all round consistency, he still needs work. Although saying all this, it'll be good to see him getting a few games under his belt, and it'll help his development in the long term.

When Fellani and Arteta play deep as CMs/DMs it looks like they are getting in each others way. There's only one ball and there are two players fighting over the ball to in our half of the pitch. Fellani should be good enough to handle all defensive duties in the middle of the pitch. After all that's why we paid him all this money isn't it?

I'd rather see Arteta play up the pitch more as a left sided CM and have him in the attacking end with Baines and Pinnear. Even in the attacking end as a CM Arteta isn't doing much he's just sitting way back and passing east-west. Hell, Neville could do that. Moyes has to get him forward more. I don't think I've seen him try a through ball this season.

 

[ToxtethBlue]

When Fellani and Arteta play deep as CMs/DMs it looks like they are getting in each others way. There's only one ball and there are two players fighting over the ball to in our half of the pitch. Fellani should be good enough to handle all defensive duties in the middle of the pitch. After all that's why we paid him all this money isn't it?

I'd rather see Arteta play up the pitch more as a left sided CM and have him in the attacking end with Baines and Pinnear. Even in the attacking end as a CM Arteta isn't doing much he's just sitting way back and passing east-west. Hell, Neville could do that. Moyes has to get him forward more. I don't think I've seen him try a through ball this season.

I disagree, when you look at the games they've started together, we've pretty much dominated the ball and controlled possession. Think Villa, Fulham, Birmingham and the last twenty minutes against Manchester Utd.

I see no reason why they won't develop a good understanding. They are both defensively sound, composed in possesion and capable of taking up a number of roles in midfield. Having two midfielders who go searching for the ball is important, they play off eachother and get the team on the front foot. Arteta also does it far more than Fellaini, Rodwell, Heitinga and Osman, look at how many times he gets on the ball per game, and how many passes he completes.

If he wants him to do something different, then he should be playing him in a different position, there's a reason we have players like Pienaar, Cahill, Coleman and the striker ahead of them, these are tradionally the creative positions in your typical 4-4-1-1/4-2-3-1. I don't think he does though, Moyes knows what Arteta brings to the table, he'll just be hoping he gets back inform, similar to last season and the season before.

 

[Rook]

I disagree, when you look at the games they've started together, we've pretty much dominated the ball and controlled possession. Think Villa, Fulham, Birmingham and the last twenty minutes against Manchester Utd.

I see no reason why they won't develop a good understanding. They are both defensively sound, composed in possesion and capable of taking up a number of roles in midfield. Having two midfielders who go searching for the ball is important, they play off eachother and get the team on the front foot. Arteta also does it far more than Fellaini, Rodwell, Heitinga and Osman, look at how many times he gets on the ball per game, and how many passes he completes.

If he wants him to do something different, then he should be playing him in a different position, there's a reason we have players like Pienaar, Cahill, Coleman and the striker ahead of them, these are tradionally the creative positions in your typical 4-4-1-1/4-2-3-1. I don't think he does though, Moyes knows what Arteta brings to the table, he'll just be hoping he gets back inform, similar to last season and the season before.

There are 2 positions in the center of the midfield don't you think say positioning Fellani farther back and letting Arteta handle more at an attacking role would be a good thing? They could still have a a good chemistry. I just see (especially in the attacking end) Arteta sitting way too far back and only going forward on a rebound and such. Despite the struggles with Howard our defensive record is decent. 3-4 extra goals this season could be the difference between where we are at now and where Spurs/Sunderland are.

 

[devinewilliam]

I would prefer Rodwell and Fellaini building up a good partnership for the years to come, depending on whether we keep Rodders

 

[ToxtethBlue]

There are 2 positions in the center of the midfield don't you think say positioning Fellani farther back and letting Arteta handle more at an attacking role would be a good thing? They could still have a a good chemistry. I just see (especially in the attacking end) Arteta sitting way too far back and only going forward on a rebound and such. Despite the struggles with Howard our defensive record is decent. 3-4 extra goals this season could be the difference between where we are at now and where Spurs/Sunderland are.

I'd like Arteta to have that freedom, and I think he does, he scored 6 in 13 games last season from that position, the only difference between then and now if he's probably lacking confidence and a bit of form. Once he gets that back, I'm sure he'll kick on.

But his main job, for me, is to dictate the way we play and control the ebb and flow of a game. His role in the team has changed now. It isn't restricting him, and lots of similar creative types play in that role.