Expectations - what can we achieve by May 2020?

[Undisputed_blue]

How can you say any system is flawed if you don't propose an alternative for comparison?

Being against targets is a bad idea in general. It's the only reason we ever achieve anything by organising things into manageable goals. Failing to achieve them is a common and essential part of life.

Sounds as though you have a blinkered view of targets. Personally I have worked in an environment where the culture was based on targets since the 1990s. So it's not a case I don't understand them, it's more of a case that generally the people who believe in targets tend to be idiots making idiotic decisions not sustainable for the long term.

Personally, I feel the right approach for Everton is to concentrate on the basics and the rest will follow. Our recruitment has been poor before Brands. Our decision making at board level has been poor. No amount of targets will cure that.

 

[LouReedwalkonthewildside]

10th - 12th.

 

[toffee9]

Sounds as though you have a blinkered view of targets. Personally I have worked in an environment where the culture was based on targets since the 1990s. So it's not a case I don't understand them, it's more of a case that generally the people who believe in targets tend to be idiots making idiotic decisions not sustainable for the long term.

Personally, I feel the right approach for Everton is to concentrate on the basics and the rest will follow. Our recruitment has been poor before Brands. Our decision making at board level has been poor. No amount of targets will cure that.

Except that you can also make targets that are both long term and that seek to be sustainable?

I don't think there's anything blinkered about a football team setting ambitious goals and striving to reach them. If we don't achieve them, we will find out why and then be better prepared for the next campaign.

 

[Undisputed_blue]

Except that you can also make targets that are both long term and that seek to be sustainable?

I don't think there's anything blinkered about a football team setting ambitious goals and striving to reach them. If we don't achieve them, we will find out why and then be better prepared for the next campaign.

I would have agreed with you on targets 25 years ago but really my thinking on them have moved on over a decade ago.

 

[artetas_biggest_fan]

I see Keane is talking crap now as well as playing it

Keane Sets Everton Target

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Although he’s an immobile, yard dog of a player, at least he has leadership qualities...

Imagine Roy Keane (or any player with any self respect) saying this, “Big Dunc came in and sort of galvanised us. He got us up for the game [against Chelsea]”.

That he has said this in a public interview shows he has no awareness whatsoever.

“I’ve been taking your hard earned cash folks, but I haven’t been up for the games tbh.”

Gutless.

 

[toffee9]

I don't think it's a case of Keane not being up for the games. I think he just hasn't wanted to take responsibility for his role in what's been going wrong. He's not alone in that. We desperately need a leader that is a role model for the club, a calming figure that doesn't panic and that doesn't give up, driving his team mates on (someone like Milner for the team across the park). We lack character when things aren't going well. Heads go down, bad decisions get made and mistakes become all too common. I'm still annoyed about the way we closed out that Leicester game because we shot ourselves in the foot (and that wasn't Silva's fault).

For tomorrow against Man Utd I hope the boys keep believing because they're going to need to in order to get something from matches like this.

 

[toffee9]

I would have agreed with you on targets 25 years ago but really my thinking on them have moved on over a decade ago.

Well, like I said I don't understand what the alternatives are and why they're better. You may as well hire some guru to tell you what they think you need to do or to buy or sell? Although even in that case, any outside consultant will almost certainly base their judgment on the teams performance and position in the league table comparing the team against those that finished with more and less points.

 

[Undisputed_blue]

Well, like I said I don't understand what the alternatives are and why they're better. You may as well hire some guru to tell you what they think you need to do or to buy or sell? Although even in that case, any outside consultant will almost certainly base their judgment on the teams performance and position in the league table comparing the team against those that finished with more and less points.

In one of my previous roles I was surrounded by management consultants. Some on £150k per year. Personally I wouldn't want to rely on their advice. I am going to take a break from this conversation as there's nothing here for me to gain. Perhaps in ten years time you may realise that targets and league tables were next to useless.

 

[Caolam]

Sounds as though you have a blinkered view of targets. Personally I have worked in an environment where the culture was based on targets since the 1990s. So it's not a case I don't understand them, it's more of a case that generally the people who believe in targets tend to be idiots making idiotic decisions not sustainable for the long term.

Personally, I feel the right approach for Everton is to concentrate on the basics and the rest will follow. Our recruitment has been poor before Brands. Our decision making at board level has been poor. No amount of targets will cure that.

I also have been working in a profession which should always be based on quality and not quantity but the new breed of managers have introduced target based approach. In their drive for results the qualative approach has been sacrificed for the quantified.
As a result people have become very skilled in innovative ways to meet targets without improving preformance. Modern society is now obsessed with appearance over substance, hence the celebrity culture

 

[T LEAFE]

The next 6 games could define our season
Leicester H Cup
Arsenal H League
Burnley H League
Newcastle A League
Man City A League
RS A Cup

 

[T LEAFE]

And meanwhile Villas next 3 games are against the bottom 3 Southampton Norwich and Watford
Important times