Everton Youth Teams Thread

[LinekersLegs]

@philkecho: Everton under-21's line-up 4-2-3-1. Ledson, captain tonight, as one of the holding two. Henen up front on his own

@philkecho: Henen receiving treatment on a leg injury. Back up now. Looks to be ok
@philkecho: Henen has now gone off. Calum Dyson replaces him

Given it seems so fashionable at the moment am guessing a hamstring injury

@philkecho: Half-time Tranmere 2-1 Everton u-21s

 

[AdamEFC]

Went the game today. They play some nice stuff but much like the first team they are good with the ball until they get to the opposition box. I think the game would have played out differently if Henen would have stayed on as his pace would have caused the Tranmere back line problems. At the end of the day it was actually men against boys and you could tell at some stages as they Tranmere players were just stronger, but that will come in time. Was most impressed by #10 (Davies?) for us, started behind the striker and also operated out wide and a deeper midfield role as the game went on and did well I thought. Also liked the look of Walsh, although he looked tiny, he always wanted the ball, got stuck in and tried to make things happen.

 

[mightymoyes]

Went the game today. They play some nice stuff but much like the first team they are good with the ball until they get to the opposition box. I think the game would have played out differently if Henen would have stayed on as his pace would have caused the Tranmere back line problems. At the end of the day it was actually men against boys and you could tell at some stages as they Tranmere players were just stronger, but that will come in time. Was most impressed by #10 (Davies?) for us, started behind the striker and also operated out wide and a deeper midfield role as the game went on and did well I thought. Also liked the look of Walsh, although he looked tiny, he always wanted the ball, got stuck in and tried to make things happen.

That's Walsh to a tee, super wee player.

 

[LinekersLegs]

Pity they couldn't manage an unbeaten preseason but some,promising signs anyway. Match report against Tranmere.

http://www.evertonfc.com/fixtures/2010-to-2019/2015-2016/u21s-friendlies/tranmere-rovers/match

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/match-report-tranmere-3-everton-9755474

 

[Eggs]

Went the game today. They play some nice stuff but much like the first team they are good with the ball until they get to the opposition box. I think the game would have played out differently if Henen would have stayed on as his pace would have caused the Tranmere back line problems. At the end of the day it was actually men against boys and you could tell at some stages as they Tranmere players were just stronger, but that will come in time. Was most impressed by #10 (Davies?) for us, started behind the striker and also operated out wide and a deeper midfield role as the game went on and did well I thought. Also liked the look of Walsh, although he looked tiny, he always wanted the ball, got stuck in and tried to make things happen.

...presume that's Tom Davies, he's another with a fine pedigree. Captain of England in his age group, lives by me in West Derby I'll be interested in his development in the coming season.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Love this thread, fantastic stuff

 

[AdamEFC]

...presume that's Tom Davies, he's another with a fine pedigree. Captain of England in his age group, lives by me in West Derby I'll be interested in his development in the coming season.

Yeah that was him, looked a good little player him.

Anyone know why Dowell was not in the squad? The other u21 lads who played at Dundee were in the squad, does this mean he will get some game time on the weekend? Or did he pick up a knock?

 

[catcherintherye]

love this thread, so so interesting. bit gutted i missed seeing the game last night, sounded like it would have been a great watch.

loving the contributions, especially those of @catcherintherye - but surely this is all too good to be true regarding numbers? Are some of these youngsters possibly being overrated by our coaches? we seem to have an absolute mass of numbers of players who could make the grade. as we all know you get talented players who don't make the grade and can still make it as championship level/lower prem level - but i'm really looking forward to where we can get in a few years time, especially with the amount of young stars we have in the first team at the moment already.

Thanks mate. To answer your question we just have to be cautious a little. As I have tried to say throughout, having talented 16 year olds is one thing, ensuring they are talented 21 year olds like Stones/Barkley is another. At 16 they are really only 20% of the way there, and how hard they work between 16-21 will make a huge difference. The only 16 year old I've ever seen who was good enough to be a pro at that age was Rooney.

That being said, we do have a very talented set of young players. It is as strong as any age group we've had post 98, and possibly strongest we've had since the 60's. There is a very real possibility that we could see half a dozen premier league players from our under 18's crop.

The key for me though is going to be is a manager willing to make spaces available for them in the first team. For a player to break through he needs to take the place of someone in the squad. When Fergusan brought through his crop, he moved on Kanchelskis, Hughes and Ince one summer. Mclair and Parker followed shortly after. There are a lot of people calling for transfers but I am very easy about our business and don't think we need another 4 or 5 players, as they will only get in the way of our young players.

As I've said above though, it is by no means certain we'll get any first team starters. A big part of it is going to depend on whether they continue the development. I have to say I've been very impressed with Unsworth in this. He looks a calming influence on them and is very willing to play young teams at the expense of sacrificing winning games. We are using the loan market well. Martinez has to take some credit too, as he is controlling the system from above and pro-actively looking to get players out on loan and involved in the first team.

That's the second part of the equation, will Martinez have confidence to draft them in. That's my biggest reason for hoping Martinez succeeds. He is willing to give the younger players a chance. However he needs to feel confident in his job to be able to introduce them, and not take the easy option of playing older pro's. What would be awful would be to move Martinez on and abandon our focus in youth, and move towards a much more first team orientated manager.

 

[Nymzee]

Yeah that was him, looked a good little player him.

Anyone know why Dowell was not in the squad? The other u21 lads who played at Dundee were in the squad, does this mean he will get some game time on the weekend? Or did he pick up a knock?

I'd imagine it's because he played like 60 minutes at Dundee and might feature against Leeds.

 

[catcherintherye]

...presume that's Tom Davies, he's another with a fine pedigree. Captain of England in his age group, lives by me in West Derby I'll be interested in his development in the coming season.

Yes absolutely. He was the captain of Everton at under 16's level when we had the best team in the country by a fair distance (in a youth team with Walsh, Donuhue, Brewster and Dowell). When I first saw him he looked like a bit of a clone of Ledson. However having seen him more he has different attributes. He's versatile, good on the ball and dribbles well, as well as being a good passer. It's interesting he has played off the front as he always used to be a bit more of a deep lying player when younger.

Another one to watch. When last season started he was playing right back a bit and wasn't getting much game time for the under 18's but over the last 6 months he has really come into his own and is now a regular for the 18's and increasingly for the reserves.

 

[blueloon]

.....- but surely this is all too good to be true regarding numbers? Are some of these youngsters possibly being overrated by our coaches?

There's a high degree of realism on this thread about the likely numbers who will make it , the requirements and pitfalls. If we look at numbers, and try to put some logic to it. Last July we took on 15, 16 year old scholars, 7 are playing regularly at u21 level for us , a good "conversion rate". We had 8 play for England u17s or 18s last season.(Some overlap there re Scholars) . About 2 years ago we had 5 in the England u20 squad, Stones, Barkley , Garbutt, Lundstrum, Long. Two have become full internationals , 2 hopefully will make a living at a lower level, Garbutt has a high chance of making it with us too. Says 50% conversion rate from England U20 's to Everton first team? Take the 8 u17/u18s (Ledson, Kenny,Connolly, Dowell, Walsh, Davies, Yates, Holland). There is a fair chance of 7 of those making u20s for England, I haven't seen enough of Holland to convince me yet, so then maybe only 50%, 3 or 4 ,going on to play regularly for us. In many ways that seems harsh given their talent but would be fantastic if we achieved it. Then you add in the likes of Antonee Robinson,Evans at 16 and a couple of Welsh/Irish international prospects and who knows.

I used the "International players" scenario to balance that these are not just "overrated by our coaches". But using the fact that they play u17/18 for England could be flawed too. At youth level, England play very much in the Everton style so I think our young players fit in very easily. Kenny, Connolly and Yates when I've seen them for England are very much attacking full backs , bombing down the wings , delivering crosses just as they've been taught too..Tom Davies at U17 for England was almost a replica of the way Ledson had played the year before in a defensive midfield role . We're turning good young players into very good young players for their age group. Is it the coaching which is superior for their age or the players themselves ? Does England/Everton playing similar styles also help? Time will tell. But watching the likes of Browning, Galloway and Pennington look so comfortable on the ball when going forward the other night you've got to believe we are getting it right up through the ages. There are a lot of talented young attacking defenders out there but maybe only Luke Shaw and Carl Jenkinson to compare with our crop if you include Stones and Garbutt.

 

[Eggs]

Yes absolutely. He was the captain of Everton at under 16's level when we had the best team in the country by a fair distance (in a youth team with Walsh, Donuhue, Brewster and Dowell). When I first saw him he looked like a bit of a clone of Ledson. However having seen him more he has different attributes. He's versatile, good on the ball and dribbles well, as well as being a good passer. It's interesting he has played off the front as he always used to be a bit more of a deep lying player when younger.

Another one to watch. When last season started he was playing right back a bit and wasn't getting much game time for the under 18's but over the last 6 months he has really come into his own and is now a regular for the 18's and increasingly for the reserves.

....cheers. I think his brother is at Tranmere.

 

[toffeejack]

Thanks mate. To answer your question we just have to be cautious a little. As I have tried to say throughout, having talented 16 year olds is one thing, ensuring they are talented 21 year olds like Stones/Barkley is another. At 16 they are really only 20% of the way there, and how hard they work between 16-21 will make a huge difference. The only 16 year old I've ever seen who was good enough to be a pro at that age was Rooney.

That being said, we do have a very talented set of young players. It is as strong as any age group we've had post 98, and possibly strongest we've had since the 60's. There is a very real possibility that we could see half a dozen premier league players from our under 18's crop.

The key for me though is going to be is a manager willing to make spaces available for them in the first team. For a player to break through he needs to take the place of someone in the squad. When Fergusan brought through his crop, he moved on Kanchelskis, Hughes and Ince one summer. Mclair and Parker followed shortly after. There are a lot of people calling for transfers but I am very easy about our business and don't think we need another 4 or 5 players, as they will only get in the way of our young players.

As I've said above though, it is by no means certain we'll get any first team starters. A big part of it is going to depend on whether they continue the development. I have to say I've been very impressed with Unsworth in this. He looks a calming influence on them and is very willing to play young teams at the expense of sacrificing winning games. We are using the loan market well. Martinez has to take some credit too, as he is controlling the system from above and pro-actively looking to get players out on loan and involved in the first team.

That's the second part of the equation, will Martinez have confidence to draft them in. That's my biggest reason for hoping Martinez succeeds. He is willing to give the younger players a chance. However he needs to feel confident in his job to be able to introduce them, and not take the easy option of playing older pro's. What would be awful would be to move Martinez on and abandon our focus in youth, and move towards a much more first team orientated manager.

people calling for martinez' head last season was, whilst understandable, short sighted. he's the best man for our club, truly believe that. we definitely need that playmaker because whilst people say dowell, he's still got another 3/4 years before he's at that age good enough to be starting that role if he continues to progress. same with a lot of the lads - we already have a young first team, we need a couple of stop gaps option for a couple of years and i'm sure martinez will give a lot of this group the chance.

he's a breathe of fresh air imo and i am excited and quite happy we have a patient board. it's the only way we could hope to compete with the money the other top 6 do.

 

[Nymzee]

people calling for martinez' head last season was, whilst understandable, short sighted. he's the best man for our club, truly believe that. we definitely need that playmaker because whilst people say dowell, he's still got another 3/4 years before he's at that age good enough to be starting that role if he continues to progress. same with a lot of the lads - we already have a young first team, we need a couple of stop gaps option for a couple of years and i'm sure martinez will give a lot of this group the chance.

he's a breathe of fresh air imo and i am excited and quite happy we have a patient board. it's the only way we could hope to compete with the money the other top 6 do.

3-4 years before Dowell is a starter? So 20-21-years old? Sorry but that's absurd, what's he going to do for the next 3-4 years? If you're good enough, you're old enough. Look at players like Max Meyer etc. coming through and becoming important first team players at their clubs. I think I'd be disappointed if he's not consistently in the first team squad next season (2016/17).

 

[catcherintherye]

people calling for martinez' head last season was, whilst understandable, short sighted. he's the best man for our club, truly believe that. we definitely need that playmaker because whilst people say dowell, he's still got another 3/4 years before he's at that age good enough to be starting that role if he continues to progress. same with a lot of the lads - we already have a young first team, we need a couple of stop gaps option for a couple of years and i'm sure martinez will give a lot of this group the chance.

he's a breathe of fresh air imo and i am excited and quite happy we have a patient board. it's the only way we could hope to compete with the money the other top 6 do.

The analogy I made was with Royle in 97. He got sacked prematurely and the club spiralled. It probably took a decade, and 5 years of steady building under Moyes to get us back to that point again. I always look back at what could have been with Royle. Still a young manager, with an FA cup Youth Winning team around the corner.

The number 1 priority for any potential Everton manager has to be how will they use the academy. Martinez has done this very well. If he went I would hope we'd look to get a De Boer in (I also wanted Tuchel but unlikely he is at Dortmund now). However the likelihood is we'd end up with a Mark Hughes type manager.

What is exciting for these young players is they can see they are being given a chance which is driving competition and performance up. When Dowell does well for the first team half a dozen will think they have that opportunity. He is getting players into the team currently, like Browning and Pennington who were not even that highly thought of as under 18's. We probably have 7-8 under 18's who are ahead of those two when they were 18 so it really does bode well.