Everton now have the longest winless run at their 'big' derby rivals Stadium in Europe

[Saint Domingo]

Since our last trophy we have beaten Manu and Arsenal only 7 times each, the same as we have beaten Liverpool. So nothing unusual about our run against LFC. Our club needs a root and branch overhaul and to get rid of this 'plucky little Everton tag'. Souness was close to the truth yesterday when he said we have not been good enough. As is shown in the results against Arsenal and Manu. Maybe Moshiri/Koeman axis will be the catalyst but we need to be more vocal in demanding more.

United and Arsenal have been far better than them though in that period.

 

[Ernie]

Between 2002 and 2007 City beat Utd 4 times in 12 games at Old Trafford

This was before they had money and Utd where the most dominate side in English football

Money is not an excuse

 

[Ernie]

Between 2002 and 2007 City beat Utd 4 times in 12 games at Old Trafford

This was before they had money and Utd where the most dominate side in English football

Money is not an excuse

 

[Saint Domingo]

Between 2002 and 2007 City beat Utd 4 times in 12 games at Old Trafford

This was before they had money and Utd where the most dominate side in English football

Money is not an excuse

Some people will just find any excuse to not say something bad about Everton. There's always a perfectly good reason why we shouldn't even hope to win. Until people admit there's a problem it will never get fixed.

 

[chicoazul]

I get you and I agree that it's more complex than just saying we must demand better. But when you've Kenwright coming out saying "What a manager" after we've beaten the worst Chelsea side in 15 years and we're lying in 13th, then it shows that the mindset from the people at the club who matter isn't acceptable.

Our fans are patient. Too patient imo. Liverpool wouldn't accept 18 years of not winning at Goodison. They'd be going ape in their own pathetic way after about 4 years. Basically it's actions on and off field that are what matters, but the club need to raise their ambition. 7th is so so. We shouldn't ever be doing much worse than that tbh. It's not superb or anything albeit it's decent improvement this year. I want gradual improvement year on year with the end goal being titles at some point. I don't want the boss dishing out platitudes to no marks doing piss poor jobs etc.

They haven't won the thing they desire most in 27 years mate and only have a Carling Cup to show for the last decade, it sort of counters your position. The fan desire has little to do with it if we're being honest.

 

[chicoazul]

Some people will just find any excuse to not say something bad about Everton. There's always a perfectly good reason why we shouldn't even hope to win. Until people admit there's a problem it will never get fixed.

Happy to admit there's a problem as Everton haven't won anything for 22 years mate. Don't think you'll encounter many Evertonians who doesn't think that's a problem.

 

[ToffeeTim]

They haven't won the thing they desire most in 27 years mate and only have a Carling Cup to show for the last decade, it sort of counters your position. The fan desire has little to do with it if we're being honest.

Oh I know that it's irrelevant how much we all crave winning something. But what concerns me is that I don't think winning means enough to those in charge of the club who actually can make a difference. Comfortable mid table finishes seem to be lapped up for some reason. Maybe I'm wrong, but I just don't think they've got the will to win that we'd like them to have.

 

[chicoazul]

Oh I know that it's irrelevant how much we all crave winning something. But what concerns me is that I don't think winning means enough to those in charge of the club who actually can make a difference. Comfortable mid table finishes seem to be lapped up for some reason. Maybe I'm wrong, but I just don't think they've got the will to win that we'd like them to have.

Prior to Moshiri yes Everton were comfortable surviving and finishing best of the rest. But that's a different debate to the one I'm (poorly) trying to put across.

 

[Bluebonic]

Yay! At least the bunch of gutless wonders can look each other in the eye, and whisper "We're record breakers"! I hope it makes them feel proud! Please dont apologise for them? Please dont! It isnt avoit wages, money spent, technical ability, it really isnt! It is simply about heart and pride, the last side to stand up and be counted was Joe Royles team, hardly world beaters, but the had spuds! That is why they were also the last team not to freeze in an FA cup match!

 

[Groucho]

Since we last won at Anfield, Blackpool have gone from the fourth tier up to the PL, won at Anfield, and then gone back down to the fourth tier again.

As said above, we need to get rid of the apologetic nature or we'll be stuck as is for years to come.

 

[Saint Domingo]

Since we last won at Anfield, Blackpool have gone from the fourth tier up to the PL, won at Anfield, and then gone back down to the fourth tier again.

As said above, we need to get rid of the apologetic nature or we'll be stuck as is for years to come.

It has spread everywhere though. Even in the media the only ones who will stand up for us are Reidy and Southall. All of the rest are happy to play along in the little brother role laughing along as some kopite patronises us. It's an engrained mentality that will be very difficult to shift.

 

[TraffordBlue]

It has spread everywhere though. Even in the media the only ones who will stand up for us are Reidy and Southall. All of the rest are happy to play along in the little brother role laughing along as some kopite patronises us. It's an engrained mentality that will be very difficult to shift.

This is probably one of the other factors in our club believing we're so inferior, because the media is infested with ex Liverpool players. With no title for 27 years, and only a League Cup win in the last 10, we will hopefully start to see a decline in their control of the media. I'm actually surprised Man United haven't got more than them to be honest.

But I agree with what you've been posting in this thread. Our performances and record is unacceptable. I don't see why we should treat it as 'just another game' when it's clearly not. It's a derby, our biggest game of the season every time, unless we play in a Cup Final or a match to seal European qualification etc.

I accept they generally have better players than us, but far poorer teams have gone to far superior rivals or far superior teams in their league and won away. Our derby record in general is pathetic now too.

 

[GerryandthePaceMerchants]

Glad I'm reading this on a Monday morning