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ECHO Comment: "Fears of Witch-hunt Against Liverpool FC" part 3


EverTheOptimist said:
I'm going to dig.

FSG haven't won 2 trophies though, they have won PL & CL, and they have won a league cup and a world club trophy (which is a FIFA sanctioned competition format and not a off game ) as well, i'll ignore the super cup it's a pan european charity shield isn't it, so we'll stick with 4.

Which is better haul though, i'm guessing you'll say the 4 Fa Cup is, you seem to put so much importance over it, i'll give you that mate.

You seem to not know about baseball, so i'll explain for you in layman terms on 21st century baseball and the sea change that happened in the sport, the same way analytics have taken hold in football, i wont say who started that though. :oops:

Since they bought the Redsox they have won the most championships in baseball, not only have they won the most championships in baseball since they got into the sport, they have been the benchmark franchise that all clubs bar the Yankees has followed because the Yankees sadly are like Man United they throw money hoping they'll eventually win a title that way because it's what the Yankees are famous for, home runs.

FSG hired Theo Epstein from a Yale university economic background , who devised a recruitment policy to target players with stats mainly high on base percentage targetting certain left handed hitters in a sport with majority right hand pitchers (they throw the ball at hitters), instead of going for home run hitters, it changed the landscape of the game this century, now every club has a Ivy league general manager (like a DOF) from a maths or economic background in charge of player recruitment now, baseball this century is all about number crunching seeing underlying stats , Giants, Royals, Astros, Dodgers, Chicago Cubs who all hadn't won a champiosnhip in decades finally were and they did it the Redsox way of using underlying analytic stats (Theo Epstein again GM this time of the cubs breaking another curse with his stats based recruitment and the redsox replaced him with another Ivy league maths whizz to win 3 more titles), like i said Redsox are the benchmark in baseball, they changed the sport, is it no wonder that Home runs are down in games now and has been for almost 20 years.

Now you know why Kroenke is such a bad owner, he is the defacto worst one in American Sports, more than Daniel Synder of the formely known Redskins and James L Dolan of the Knicks, but Kroenke gets that lofty title because he has 4 teams who do nothing but make up the numbers every year, so when i said FSG prefer winning trophies both sides of the Atlantic now you know why, they love to win and put the right people in place from recruitment to coaching and win championships, Kreonke, just keeps rehiring and firing just like he does with the Avalanche, Nugets, Rams, rapids and Arsenal and wins the odd division title or the not to important Fa Cup.
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I dont think I've ever met a football fan who takes that FIFA tournament in the least but seriously. So I dont count that.

As for what is more impressive out of 4 FA Cups or a League and a CL, I have no idea really. It would be different depending on who you asked really. However you are changing the goalposts from your original point, which was that Arsenals owners are the worst in football, and Liverpools owners are brilliant, based on the former not wanting to win trophies, and the latter wanting to win them. Surely you can see that is a completely ludicrous thing to say, and doesnt hold true with the evidence?

You are right to say I know very little about baseball. However, I do know that in the time you referenced (I.e the last 5 titles Boston Red Sox have won) the Yankees have won 27. You didnt seem aware of this. Why were you under the impression that since 1918, Boston Red Sox are some super baseball team? Or the biggest sports franchise in the world? Its again just not backed up by evidence is it?

Of course, pass judgement on my lack of knowledge of baseball, but what does it say of your lack of understanding, that you seemed to think nobody had won more trophies since Boston last won 5 championships?

As for the rest, I broadly agree. FSG are astute operators and employ serious people. The Oakland Athletics started the trend of moneyball, but Henry et al certainly jumped onto it.

However, nobody is doubting how intelligent they are in recruitment. You are shifting the argument towards an area where you know there is consensus, to avoid dealing with some of the ridiculous things you have said.

Just for clarity, I'll list the areas of complete nonsense and where evidence doesnt fit.

1) Kroenke is the worst owner in football. (He may be bad, but hard to see him as the worst).

2) Kroenke doesn't care about trophies but FSG do- despite the fact Kroenke has won more trophies.

3) That the Boston Red Sox are the most impressive sports franchise in the world due to on field performance.

4) That the time it has taken Boston to win 5 championships (I.e over 100 years) no baseball team can match this (despite me informing you the Yankees has won 27).

However much you want to deflect away from the above, there is no sane defence to any of the above points that I, or I would imagine anyone else logical can see. I doubt even John Henry himself, clearly a man who possesses the ability to be self critical, could even begin to make any such conclusions.
 
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EverTheOptimist said:
I'm going to dig.

FSG haven't won 2 trophies though, they have won PL & CL, and they have won a league cup and a world club trophy (which is a FIFA sanctioned competition format and not a off game ) as well, i'll ignore the super cup it's a pan european charity shield isn't it, so we'll stick with 4.

Which is better haul though, i'm guessing you'll say the 4 Fa Cup is, you seem to put so much importance over it, i'll give you that mate.

You seem to not know about baseball, so i'll explain for you in layman terms on 21st century baseball and the sea change that happened in the sport, the same way analytics have taken hold in football, i wont say who started that though. :oops:

Since they bought the Redsox they have won the most championships in baseball, not only have they won the most championships in baseball since they got into the sport, they have been the benchmark franchise that all clubs bar the Yankees has followed because the Yankees sadly are like Man United they throw money hoping they'll eventually win a title that way because it's what the Yankees are famous for, home runs.

FSG hired Theo Epstein from a Yale university economic background , who devised a recruitment policy to target players with stats mainly high on base percentage targetting certain left handed hitters in a sport with majority right hand pitchers (they throw the ball at hitters), instead of going for home run hitters, it changed the landscape of the game this century, now every club has a Ivy league general manager (like a DOF) from a maths or economic background in charge of player recruitment now, baseball this century is all about number crunching seeing underlying stats , Giants, Royals, Astros, Dodgers, Chicago Cubs who all hadn't won a champiosnhip in decades finally were and they did it the Redsox way of using underlying analytic stats (Theo Epstein again GM this time of the cubs breaking another curse with his stats based recruitment and the redsox replaced him with another Ivy league maths whizz to win 3 more titles), like i said Redsox are the benchmark in baseball, they changed the sport, is it no wonder that Home runs are down in games now and has been for almost 20 years.

Now you know why Kroenke is such a bad owner, he is the defacto worst one in American Sports, more than Daniel Synder of the formely known Redskins and James L Dolan of the Knicks, but Kroenke gets that lofty title because he has 4 teams who do nothing but make up the numbers every year, so when i said FSG prefer winning trophies both sides of the Atlantic now you know why, they love to win and put the right people in place from recruitment to coaching and win championships, Kreonke, just keeps rehiring and firing just like he does with the Avalanche, Nugets, Rams, rapids and Arsenal and wins the odd division title or the not to important Fa Cup.
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200.gif
 

arch stanton said:
Ha ha, yes they are still around, because of a Dutch government bailout, I know the RS are the establishment's club but not sure they'd get a HM Gov bailout. What about all the others? Any chance of putting something in a pseudo league table or a pie chart?
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APLT
Alternative Profit League Table
I’m sure he’s seen something similar loads of times
 
It's not even worth trying to blag your own head that they aren't a great side under klopp. They walked the league 2 seasons ago, ok other sides weren't as good as usual but even the bigger games that season the blerts destroyed them. I still think Chelsea are the team to beat this season despite the City result but write the other lot at your peril. I defo think we win the derby in november though, we simply have too and I honestly think benitez is a better tactical manager than klopp who just manages to get the arm round players thing right. Guardiola is acting like a girl there though, Alex Ferguson would have laughed in klopps face
 

PaddyJames said:
It's not even worth trying to blag your own head that they aren't a great side under klopp. They walked the league 2 seasons ago, ok other sides weren't as good as usual but even the bigger games that season the blerts destroyed them. I still think Chelsea are the team to beat this season despite the City result but write the other lot at your peril. I defo think we win the derby in november though, we simply have too and I honestly think benitez is a better tactical manager than klopp who just manages to get the arm round players thing right. Guardiola is acting like a girl there though, Alex Ferguson would have laughed in klopps face
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They're good. And klopp deserves some praise. But are they really as good as their current form suggests?

There has always been something off about this Liverpool team. On paper, they shouldn't be anywhere near as good as they have been.

I believe one of the reasons for this is teams have shown them too much respect. Take Norwich as an example. Against us, they played arguably their best football of the season. Where was that fight against Liverpool?

It's well known Klopp is a sore loser. Any manager savvy enough could have him melting down like Fergie did with Keegan. At least in theory, since no seems to have tried.
 
PaddyJames said:
It's not even worth trying to blag your own head that they aren't a great side under klopp. They walked the league 2 seasons ago, ok other sides weren't as good as usual but even the bigger games that season the blerts destroyed them. I still think Chelsea are the team to beat this season despite the City result but write the other lot at your peril. I defo think we win the derby in november though, we simply have too and I honestly think benitez is a better tactical manager than klopp who just manages to get the arm round players thing right. Guardiola is acting like a girl there though, Alex Ferguson would have laughed in klopps face
Click to expand...
I'm more gloomy:
Chelsea is a big question mark to me. Lost again in the CL, failed to score again... Lost against city. They won against Tottenham, but so did Arsenal...
City lost again, to PSG this time... Favourites for now. Can go on a 25 game winning streak,
Man Utd don't look very good, despite results going their way

If they win this weekend... they will take some stopping... they'll reach peak-arrogance at derby time... That's when Benitez will make them cry...
 

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