ECHO Comment: "Fears of Witch-hunt Against Liverpool FC" part 3

[GwladysBlue]

 

[tsubaki]

the RS announce a multi-million pound loss for the same period as when money was being pumped into vaccine development?

Hendo has saved us all again

 

[MrGrumpy]

If the 14 are clever they would refuse to buy any of the 6s cast off this summer. RS need to sell half their squad, no one buys them and that really messes them up
Also don’t see RM or Barca dealing with them either

 

[trueblue84]

Don't fret rs... Hendo, the captain of captains will sort it out.

 

[number4.]

Questions need to be asked over Michael Edwards the man who apparently doesn’t ever make a mistake and is sponsored by KFC.

Big money midfield signings of Keita and Thiago haven’t worked, yet Can Lallana Wijnaldum and probably Milner will leave for nothing. Shaqiri Minamino Oxlade Chamberlain haven’t worked. There’s no youth coming through as you say apart from Curtis Jones who’s path has been blocked by the vanity signing of Thiago. There’s no cover for either fullback who is premier league standard. Ben Davies can’t even make the squad. Add all of this to the overall contract situation they now have on their hands.

All he did was spend world record money on players to give Klopp everything he wanted then they went all out for two seasons (probably illegally enhanced also) to win a couple of pots and now there’s nothing in place for continuity.

Not a single mistake there.

Just on this point, a player leaving for nothing has to be put into the context of the contracts they havent been offered. It's not specific to LFC, but a general consideration.

If you look a Wijnaldum for example; signed almost 5 years ago on a 5 year deal at a reported 60k PW (some sites say 40k some say 90k). They could have offered him a new deal in 2018 for another 5 years, but the kicker would be he wants parity (reasonable request) with Jordan Henderson who is on circa 150kPW (again varying reports)

So if you ladder that up in terms of 5 year outlay, that's an incremental increase for three years of 90k + 2 years @150k, totaling just over £31 million in outlay.

My point is not about Gini Wijnaldum specifically, but more the idea of a player leaving on a free is not always a case of financial mismanagement, but sometimes a prudent way of extruding max value from a player

 

[Brisan123]

John henry should reply ‘ you do know that we’re the current Premier League ASTERISK champions, not doing s’bad ay?’ Moaning gets

Fixed

 

[Brisan123]

I mean good on them, and I love the sentiment, but it does look to be filled with spelling mistakes. Would it have hurt to have proof read it?

Should have borrowed @Joey66 iPad

 

[Saint Domingo]

Just on this point, a player leaving for nothing has to be put into the context of the contracts they havent been offered. It's not specific to LFC, but a general consideration.

If you look a Wijnaldum for example; signed almost 5 years ago on a 5 year deal at a reported 60k PW (some sites say 40k some say 90k). They could have offered him a new deal in 2018 for another 5 years, but the kicker would be he wants parity (reasonable request) with Jordan Henderson who is on circa 150kPW (again varying reports)

So if you ladder that up in terms of 5 year outlay, that's an incremental increase for three years of 90k + 2 years @150k, totaling just over £31 million in outlay.

My point is not about Gini Wijnaldum specifically, but more the idea of a player leaving on a free is not always a case of financial mismanagement, but sometimes a prudent way of extruding max value from a player

Potentially, but there’s the year on year book cost. Wijnaldum for example is 30 mill transfer fee plus his wages over 5 years. For FFP purposes a contract renewal takes out the transfer fee and you are left with just the wages as the ongoing book value cost hence why some are saying we should extend Siggurdson as it’s actually cheaper for us to keep him than to let him go and buy another backup number 10. It’s part of the reason Bernard’s wages are so high is that he had no transfer fee so over the course of his contract the book value didn’t impact FFP that much.

It would perhaps be more understandable if these players were 33 or if they were just not very good and a buyer can’t be found (the situation we’re in with loads of contracts), but Can and Wijnaldum are international players in their prime with interest from Barcelona and Dortmund who will pick them up on a free despite Liverpool wanting to keep them. Lallana also is still prem standard and they got no fee for him.

If they have to buy a replacement for Wijnaldum then the cost of his transfer fee plus wages per year has to be less than whatever Wijnaldum’s wages alone would have been for the deal to work out financially.

 

[number4.]

Potentially, but there’s the year on year book cost. Wijnaldum for example is 30 mill transfer fee plus his wages over 5 years. For FFP purposes a contract renewal takes out the transfer fee and you are left with just the wages as the ongoing book value cost hence why some are saying we should extend Siggurdson as it’s actually cheaper for us to keep him than to let him go and buy another backup number 10. It’s part of the reason Bernard’s wages are so high is that he had no transfer fee so over the course of his contract the book value didn’t impact FFP that much.

It would perhaps be more understandable if these players were 33 or if they were just not very good and a buyer can’t be found (the situation we’re in with loads of contracts), but Can and Wijnaldum are international players in their prime with interest from Barcelona and Dortmund who will pick them up on a free despite Liverpool wanting to keep them. Lallana also is still prem standard and they got no fee for him.

If they have to buy a replacement for Wijnaldum then the cost of his transfer fee plus wages per year has to be less than whatever Wijnaldum’s wages alone would have been for the deal to work out financially.

All very fair - Two points, I do wonder if they feel his legs are gone or will go. He certainly doesnt look to be contributing as much as he has previously to the untrained eye. Secondly, I suppose the arguement for a replacement is a sell-on value if they go younger as well.

Anyway - you get my general point hopefully! I wouldnt scoff at a player going on a free

 

[4737carlin]

If the 14 are clever they would refuse to buy any of the 6s cast off this summer. RS need to sell half their squad, no one buys them and that really messes them up
Also don’t see RM or Barca dealing with them either

The amount of money they make from casts offs is crazy, Everton are guilty of it too, buying them I mean

 

[4737carlin]

Its Demba Day, happy birthday

 

[catcherintherye]

Just on this point, a player leaving for nothing has to be put into the context of the contracts they havent been offered. It's not specific to LFC, but a general consideration.

If you look a Wijnaldum for example; signed almost 5 years ago on a 5 year deal at a reported 60k PW (some sites say 40k some say 90k). They could have offered him a new deal in 2018 for another 5 years, but the kicker would be he wants parity (reasonable request) with Jordan Henderson who is on circa 150kPW (again varying reports)

So if you ladder that up in terms of 5 year outlay, that's an incremental increase for three years of 90k + 2 years @150k, totaling just over £31 million in outlay.

My point is not about Gini Wijnaldum specifically, but more the idea of a player leaving on a free is not always a case of financial mismanagement, but sometimes a prudent way of extruding max value from a player

To a degree I agree with that. Certainly the trend for players into their late 20s has been for them to lose value.

Overall though I think they probably underrate Wijnaldum. Go and look at their record with him in the team, he is a critical cog, as important as any of their players. Thiago is a big downgrade on him, and theyd have been better boxing him off than going for Thiago.

I do also think, you see now that lots of their big players are into their final 2 years of their deals, that there is probably something slightly bigger going on.

 

[brigadier]

If they dont sell players they are financial doping is that right lurkers.

 

[Yarrgh]

To a degree I agree with that. Certainly the trend for players into their late 20s has been for them to lose value.

Overall though I think they probably underrate Wijnaldum. Go and look at their record with him in the team, he is a critical cog, as important as any of their players. Thiago is a big downgrade on him, and theyd have been better boxing him off than going for Thiago.

I do also think, you see now that lots of their big players are into their final 2 years of their deals, that there is probably something slightly bigger going on.

I think that bigger thing was Covid. Absolutely scuppered them. Some would have been sold and moved at the end of last season for decent money and some at the end of this if there was money sloshing around European clubs. Also the lockdown and global tightening of the belt meant they didn't make the money they would have expected to for winning in a non-asterisk year. Add into that the fact that Van Dijk is not playing - real big issues for them.

 

[catcherintherye]

I havent really scrutined their accounts fully, but overall not as bad as what next years will be for them.

This is up to May of last year, so essentially they lose April, May and some of Marchs revenue. Next set of accounts they will lose an entire years worth of moneys.

Some interesting take outs. Wage bill up to 325m as stated. Only City and them are at that level now, and arguably nobody else in world football even close to that. Yet tehy are languishing in 6th. Abysmal squad management from Klopp. It would be like Rangers or Celtic being 6th in Scotland.

The other point is the debt stands at 200m now. I dont know if that includes the main stand debt (probably) or the £200m that FSG have put onto their books to cover losses (probably not). The idiots thin the 500m from Red Bird will be going to squad building.Only 200m of that is for LFC, and it directly relates to the aforementioned losses that have not been put in LFC books. Im sure FSG will swallow the 200m for now, but if they want them out they will want that re-paying. So they are essentially around 400m in debt. Again in and of itself not disastrous in and of itself, with turnover being arond 480m but if it starts exceding that number you start to worry.

Next years will be much worse. While this year has in essence shown £245m in losses (when you take in the £200m FSG put on their books rather than LFCs) you do wonder how much bigger the loss might be next season? The official debt figure could be well over 300m and the real figure could be over £500m.

With no CL around the corner it is all starting to look a bit suspect for them.