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ECHO Comment: "Fears of Witch-hunt Against Liverpool FC" part 3

They have 43 points with 10 games to go. To be realistically competitive for top 4 they’ll probably need 25 more points. That’s 8 wins and a draw in 10 games. It ain’t happening. Win or bust for them now in the CL.

Yes before that Fulham game, I felt that was win or bust. They could have just about got away with 6 from the 3 games (Sheffield United, Chelsea and Fulham). I think yesterday killed it off for me. I had them tracking around 62-64 points before that game, but that was working to the basis of 3 points yesterday. The reality is, of the 5 sides above them, 2 or 3 may fall away, but all 5 are not going to fail to get into the mid 60's. That would require them getting well over 2 points a game, when they are on a 15 game run or whatever where they are under a point per game. It's done, they are more likely to finish bottom half now.

The question is, what happens re transfer plans etc.
 


Thats absolutely incredible. Bewildering. I mean even if it's true (which I suspect it will be) you wouldnt be putting that out there. If he's said that, I would imagine you have complications with Van Dijk, and probably Gomez (who nobody even talks about anymore) and the fella has no long term thoughts with the club. I mean, even for him, that is incredible.
 

Thats absolutely incredible. Bewildering. I mean even if it's true (which I suspect it will be) you wouldnt be putting that out there. If he's said that, I would imagine you have complications with Van Dijk, and probably Gomez (who nobody even talks about anymore) and the fella has no long term thoughts with the club. I mean, even for him, that is incredible.
Here's what he said:

But asked if he can see similarities between the campaign that saw him call time on his Dortmund reign and his most difficult season so far at Liverpool, the manager insisted they are “completely different.”

“It’s clear. I’m Jurgen Klopp, I was at Dortmund, I had a situation at Dortmund after a very successful spell and then something happened,” he told reporters.
“It’s not that easy, it’s not even close, the situation at Dortmund was not half as bad.

“From an injury point of view it was not half as bad as it is here, not half, and we had much less points after the first part of the season.

“The difference was we had injuries – and it was the reason, the first part of the season was similar – and then in the second part they all came back.

“I knew after the last game of the first part of the season we’d have a winter break, and I knew when we started the pre-season for the second part of the season all the players would be back.

“That’s a completely different situation, because nobody, pretty much nobody, comes back [this season].
 
I'm not sure I entirely see it this way.

In the abstract I tend to agree. He has enormous stock amongst fans, though to be honest quite a few of them are turning on him now, and others are openly questioning him. 2 months and 12 games more with a lot of defeats would be bruising for him. I mean if he can consolidate at over 1 point per game, he might be able to limp on from the fans perspective, but anything less than that and I reckon there will be open revolt.

The problem for him, in honesty really comes next season. I think a lot of forgiveness from fans is that everything just goes back to normal and they win the league next season. As I think I put to Dave earlier, I can see a world where he improves from this form (I can't imagine a world where they are a point a game unless FSG panic and issue a firesale) but I am also not sure they get to 2 points per game. I don't think it will be good enough for a log of fans.

We are beyond the point now where we discuss is this a crash, or whether there will be a longer term impact, but it's really a case of how long the impact goes on for and how severe the current dip will go. You also have to throw in, I really don't think there will be much money for any sort of a rebuild come the summer. If there wasn't money in January, relying on CL money etc, there won't be with no CL and potentially no European money full stop.

The other cavaet in this, is it's ultimately not the fans who decide. I think the owners will look at his myriad of outbursts and digs, his insitence on two new CB's that he hasn't played, the crying for Koulibaly which was never realistic, the crying for Thiago who he has broke the bank for with wages and has badly flopped, and you start to say a collapse from 1st at Christmas to say 8th at the end of the season is just not acceptable.

They are almost certainly going to be looking at their biggest gap to the leader since the Hodgson days. It may even be the biggest gap in PL history (and in honesty since we all started watching football, as they were never far off from the 70's onwards). It took them 7-8 years post Hodgson or general big forward momentum and big spending (relatively so) to get to that point. I honestly think they are at that point, where they are 6 or 7 years off challenging again, and that assumes they start making the sort of ruthless calls FSG made back in 2012. I'm not sure any of them have come to terms with this reality at all.

In honesty, he's very lucky this collapse happened not a year earlier otherwise he would probably be gone now. Reminds me of Houllier 03, who they limped on with, with seething resentment from the fans, and in the end only messed up another season in the process.

I agree & I dont think there is a quick fix personally, what I'm trying to say is there is reasonable rationale to write the season off as an anomaly, whether that is right or wrong. I realise all clubs have had to deal with the same issues, but internally at Liverpool the will look at the injuries, lack of crowd, Covid season, possibly VAR and so on & just say "write it off as a freak and move one" -

I think in a weird way, it gives them a physchological chance to bounce back which you don't under any other circumstances. Even the practicality of the players being in a better headspace once lockdown is over will be a positive.

With all that said, I think the problems run way deeper & they will struggle to bounce back here, but my belief would be they will go down the "write it off" approach & get players back in positions get two or three out & in and go for a "fresh start" with lots of Unity with the fans etc etc messages.
 
Here's what he said:

But asked if he can see similarities between the campaign that saw him call time on his Dortmund reign and his most difficult season so far at Liverpool, the manager insisted they are “completely different.”

“It’s clear. I’m Jurgen Klopp, I was at Dortmund, I had a situation at Dortmund after a very successful spell and then something happened,” he told reporters.
“It’s not that easy, it’s not even close, the situation at Dortmund was not half as bad.

“From an injury point of view it was not half as bad as it is here, not half, and we had much less points after the first part of the season.

“The difference was we had injuries – and it was the reason, the first part of the season was similar – and then in the second part they all came back.

“I knew after the last game of the first part of the season we’d have a winter break, and I knew when we started the pre-season for the second part of the season all the players would be back.

“That’s a completely different situation, because nobody, pretty much nobody, comes back [this season].

Thanks for that. I suppose in his defence he's cavaeting it with "this season" (which does seem to contradict his bullish talk of VVD back, and some of them saying he would be back by March). I do think, if he knows they are back for the start of next season, you would add that in.

That's the positive. On a negative front he seems extremely contradictory. Dortmund was great then "something happened" (not saying what) then he says the Dortmund situation was not as bad but also they got less points overall.

I mean it seems all over the place to me. Is he insinuating that Liverpool are lucky it's not worse for them? If he wants to use the injuries defence fine, but it seems a lot of over complicating to me in this. I would say he is being quite defensive and trying to go around the houses.

It's also worth noting, when he says "nobody comes back this season" but Arnold, Thiago, Fabinho, Jota, Keita etc have al returned. Is he referring to Henderson as we here?

That comes across as really odd. Just a couple of closing points. Firstly Dortmund didn't go back to normal. They improved, but were a long way off the peak (around 25%) in terms of points. They haven't ever really returned to that level again, in the last 6 years. And the squad he left, was blitzed, and most of the injured players never came back the same players. It took a manager like Tuchel to begin a rebuild.

If the plan is, wait until all the lads get back, it didn't work at Dortmund.

If I was FSG I'd expect him to say something like "I'm manager of Liverpool I'm not here to talk about Dortmund" rather than almost put a defence of his time there.
 

Thanks for that. I suppose in his defence he's cavaeting it with "this season" (which does seem to contradict his bullish talk of VVD back, and some of them saying he would be back by March). I do think, if he knows they are back for the start of next season, you would add that in.

That's the positive. On a negative front he seems extremely contradictory. Dortmund was great then "something happened" (not saying what) then he says the Dortmund situation was not as bad but also they got less points overall.

I mean it seems all over the place to me. Is he insinuating that Liverpool are lucky it's not worse for them? If he wants to use the injuries defence fine, but it seems a lot of over complicating to me in this. I would say he is being quite defensive and trying to go around the houses.

It's also worth noting, when he says "nobody comes back this season" but Arnold, Thiago, Fabinho, Jota, Keita etc have al returned. Is he referring to Henderson as we here?

That comes across as really odd. Just a couple of closing points. Firstly Dortmund didn't go back to normal. They improved, but were a long way off the peak (around 25%) in terms of points. They haven't ever really returned to that level again, in the last 6 years. And the squad he left, was blitzed, and most of the injured players never came back the same players. It took a manager like Tuchel to begin a rebuild.

If the plan is, wait until all the lads get back, it didn't work at Dortmund.

If I was FSG I'd expect him to say something like "I'm manager of Liverpool I'm not here to talk about Dortmund" rather than almost put a defence of his time there.
I think overall what his intention there was to prevent others seeing a pattern emerging in his coaching history that will prevent bigger clubs than Dortmund and Liverpool calling for his services. If it's established that he comes out initially wherever he goes like gangbusters then his teams run out of gas and pick up injuries, no club like Barcelona or Madrid or Bayern will contemplate hiring him.

Every word out of him now will be about reputation damage limitation.
 

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