Did Irvine and Carsley make such a difference?

[toffeetop]

I have always been a "Moyes-Man" but this season's performances have begun to suggest that all is not what it once seemed. For example:

The apparent capitulation against lesser teams such as Wigan and
lack-luster performances from Lescott, Yakubu, Cahill, Anachebie and Arteta.

Either Moyes has lost his knack of getting the best out of said players (possibly due to the constant financial uncertainty in the club) or Alan Irvine and Lee Carsley had a more profound impact on the team’s performances than previously thought.

Am I alone in my doubts or is this just another negative thread from a disgruntled Evertonian?

 

[TX Bill]

I'd give creedence to the fact that not having Carsley in front of the back four was a big factor early in the season.

I don't have a clue how Irvine affected the club in his role as assistant to DM so I can't comment on it. Part of me says "coincidence" that our form dipped since he left for Preston.

Same for Round when he joined the club.

If we can get things sorted in the back and with a solid holding DM, then we can at least go into matches knowing that it'll take a very good team to break us down. From there, we can work on issues in the attacking aspect of our game.

 

[davek]

Who knows what impact Irvine made (and, for that matter, what impact Round is making/failing to make)? That's all behind closed doors stuff. Carsley obviously is missed because we can see it with our own eyes. A 4-5-1 with him sitting in front of the defence was the hallmark of Moyes tenure at Goodison. I suggest he replaces him asap if he doesn't want to see 6 years work pissed up against the wall.

 

[TX Bill]

I find myself agreeing with more and more of your posts Davek.

 

[ToxtethBlue]

We started playing well when Irvine left last season from what I remember.

We do miss Carsley. Not because he was a world class defensive midfielder like some make out but because he was a defensive midfielder something we have very rarely used this season. A midfield of Osman and Fellaini is going to cause is problems. Castillo and Rodwell haven't been given a run of games to prove themselves.

And what you've got to remember is we didn't keep alot of clean sheets toward the end of last season with Carsley in the side. We kept 1 clean sheet in the last 9/10 games of last season. So even with Carsley in the side we where shipping goals, we've just continued from there.

 

[TX Bill]

I loved Carsley because he knew his role and didn't try to do too much.

1) Stop the opposition
2) Get the ball
3) Give it to an attacking midfielder
4) Repeat

Say what you want but he was very effective and I can remember time after time after time where I'd watch a match and see an opposing team start a counterattack yet there was Carsley coming across the pitch to at least slow them down and give the rest of his midfield time to get back.

I miss him.

 

[davek]

I find myself agreeing with more and more of your posts Davek.

As soon as I posted, you'd said it all anyway.

 

[Brownie]

I loved Carsley because he knew his role and didn't try to do too much.

1) Stop the opposition
2) Get the ball
3) Give it to an attacking midfielder
4) Repeat

Say what you want but he was very effective and I can remember time after time after time where I'd watch a match and see an opposing team start a counterattack yet there was Carsley coming across the pitch to at least slow them down and give the rest of his midfield time to get back.

I miss him.

He was very good at his job. Main thing I liked about him tho was that he wasn't a little [Poor language removed]. He wouldn't think twice about dominating people on the pitch. I honestly think a massive part of why we've been so [Poor language removed] this season is because nearly all of our players have a severe lack of mental strength.

 

[Goat]

I dont see it myself, granted we won a LOT of games 1-0, but i just think the problem we are having is scoring goals, we very rarely concede more than 1 goal, but we honestly never look like scoring. The problems in the team are from an attacking point of view, but i gotta admit i do miss Carsley, i just dont think he needs to be replaced as such, i mean we have 2 DMs in the squad. 1 a highly thought of youngster Rodwell and another a seasoned international Castillo.

I can see the problems that they both have, 1 is young and still learning and the other possibly hasnt got used to the prem. But Moyes has that option if he feels we need it, we need to start scoring or at least look like scoring, hell even mounting a decent attack in which 3 players pass and move would be a start.

With Irvine, maybe cos he was such good mates with Moyes he would help him out, tell him when hes wrong, point out problems, possibly Round doesnt have that relationship, maybe hes a Yes man, i dont know.

Something aint right, but i think its down to what we have got, rather than what we are missing.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I'm not sure either really but a defensive midfielder is badly needed. I don't really think Carsley was that good a player but he did the simple things well. We needed to make a step up from him to progress. The problem is that we've replaced him with Saha.

 

[GhostOfDixie]

I have always been a "Moyes-Man" but this season's performances have begun to suggest that all is not what it once seemed. For example:

The apparent capitulation against lesser teams such as Wigan and
lack-luster performances from Lescott, Yakubu, Cahill, Anachebie and Arteta.

Either Moyes has lost his knack of getting the best out of said players (possibly due to the constant financial uncertainty in the club) or Alan Irvine and Lee Carsley had a more profound impact on the team’s performances than previously thought.

Am I alone in my doubts or is this just another negative thread from a disgruntled Evertonian?

Ok I would say that it wasn't the fact that Carsley is no longer there, more so the fact that we have failed to bring in a defensive midfielder. Fellaini is more attacking, we don't seem to have that anchor. Or we do, we just don't play him. Castillo.

 

[uknightbreed]

to me its not a question of missing carsleys and irvine's skill (aj too) , its more about losing a big portion of the squads charisma and personality.

with those 3 missing it has imo changed the persona of the whole squad as a unit.

we do have a couple of 'livewires' but a big portion of the squad although nice lads , have the charisma and character of a plank of wood.

this has changed our team from a 'jack in a box' to a bunch of 'mr proffesional' dull joes.

but then again we do also have a manager who benches anyone with half a personality.

 

[toffeetop]

the fact that the players that played well last season are not up to the same standards this season suggests that there is motivational issues- could this have been Irvine’s strong point?

 

[ToxtethBlue]

We played our best football last season when Irvine left for Preston.

 

[Brownie]

It's up to Mikel to step up. He's the man.

I'm fed up with all the disillusionment to be honest, this season is just a sack of [Poor language removed].