2025/26 David Moyes

[Curtis]

And I think that's a fair enough reading of what he does. My own take would be he prioritises not losing by the way he sets up, which greatly minimises the chances of a win. % football basically. And it's fine that it's his way, and it's fine if some fans like it but for me personally it's a chore and I'd like a different attitude, and my viewpoint is made even stronger by the fact that we have already had many many seasons of that approach

I think that some people can't fully comprehend is that some of the supposed teams Moyes has atrocious records with aren't even dominant anymore they're just a sky six team, Moyes record against Man United even recently is woeful , and it's not even about his lack of tactical prowess, it's the mentality he employs when he approaches certain matches like you alluded to. I personally think he's a solid manager but I do find it irksome that certain games he already has appeared to deem as an expected loss instead of making a go of instead of just capitulating beforehand.

 

[Lanolin]

And I think that's a fair enough reading of what he does. My own take would be he prioritises not losing by the way he sets up, which greatly minimises the chances of a win. % football basically. And it's fine that it's his way, and it's fine if some fans like it but for me personally it's a chore and I'd like a different attitude, and my viewpoint is made even stronger by the fact that we have already had many many seasons of that approach

That's the key for me. I have defended the old KITAP1 approach at times and I can 100% get on board with the idea that it is/was a valid approach in theory when considering the potential disparity in quality between us and the best teams. The thing is, once it hasn't worked 50 times in a row you sort of have to accept that whatever the theoretical merits might be, it isn't actually working. Moyes's record away at the 'big' clubs is clearly an issue, and it's hard to just put it down as one of those things when it's gone on for so long and at different clubs. Obviously it's not necessarily a massive deal all in all, if the season as a whole is a good one then it's just a footnote, but it would be nice not to go in to these games resigned to the fact that we won't win.

 

[Marius57]

….they’re all paid lots of money, it’s just that some are paid more than others. Personally, it’s of no interest to me, all that matters is he’s done a fine job since joining us.

Same. I couldn’t really care. He has transformed us from the dirge we were prior to him, not only keeping us up, but giving us an identity again.

Saying that, the list I just saw had him on £5m and 8th best paid. Considering since he has come in (coming up to a year now), he would have us in 7th across that period, could argue he is slightly underpaid.

 

[bicycleheader]

And they were our best seasons in recent memory.

As my best I'd take two or three of Moyes seasons, Martinez first season and then all the rest vary between godawful to average and dull. So the field for best season in recent memory award is a very weak one and my original point about his chosen approach and my dislike of it stands.

 

[Kevsleftpeg]

That's the key for me. I have defended the old KITAP1 approach at times and I can 100% get on board with the idea that it is/was a valid approach in theory when considering the potential disparity in quality between us and the best teams. The thing is, once it hasn't worked 50 times in a row you sort of have to accept that whatever the theoretical merits might be, it isn't actually working. Moyes's record away at the 'big' clubs is clearly an issue, and it's hard to just put it down as one of those things when it's gone on for so long and at different clubs. Obviously it's not necessarily a massive deal all in all, if the season as a whole is a good one then it's just a footnote, but it would be nice not to go in to these games resigned to the fact that we won't win.

Do teams with comparable resources have significantly better records? They may have had a win or two of course but they probably had a lot of hidings as well. The big teams only tend to lose at home once or twice a season and those are mainly against other big teams. We could play in a more attacking way but that may lead to the occasional win but more hidings which are detrimental to confidence and momentum.

 

[Kevsleftpeg]

As my best I'd take two or three of Moyes seasons, Martinez first season and then all the rest vary between godawful to average and dull. So the field for best season in recent memory award is a very weak one and my original point about his chosen approach and my dislike of it stands.

You can dislike it all you like. But would you prefer us to have an inferior manager who is more attacking against the top 4? We haven't beaten Arsenal or Chelsea away since 1996. We have beaten Utd away once since 1992 and we have beaten Liverpool once since 1999 during lockdown. Moyes was manager for less than half of that period.

 

[bicycleheader]

You can dislike it all you like. But would you prefer us to have an inferior manager who is more attacking against the top 4? We haven't beaten Arsenal or Chelsea away since 1996. We have beaten Utd away once since 1992 and we have beaten Liverpool once since 1999 during lockdown. Moyes was manager for less than half of that period.

No id prefer a manager who tries more in this respect. Id personally would have a lot of patience for a manager with a different attitude, if it took them a couple seasons to build up. With Moyes I feel very sure there's no surprises coming. Happy he has us stable, great job done but I'd prefer a change in summer.

 

[Lanolin]

Do teams with comparable resources have significantly better records? They may have had a win or two of course but they probably had a lot of hidings as well. The big teams only tend to lose at home once or twice a season and those are mainly against other big teams. We could play in a more attacking way but that may lead to the occasional win but more hidings which are detrimental to confidence and momentum.

That sounds like you're trying to make it impossible to answer really, because whatever I say you can claim that completely unquantifiable things like confidence and momentum would have been affected. Obviously on a basic level the answer is yes, plenty of other teams have a better record at those grounds than we do.

As I regularly say with these things though, what you're talking about is the manager's responsibility. It's not a case of saying we should go out ultra attacking in every one of these games, it's saying the manager (whoever it is) should find ways to win games. If the way we did that was KITAP1 then great, I have no issue at all with that, the point is just that we have tried that A LOT and it hasn't worked, so I wouldn't be averse to trying something a bit different a bit more regularly.

 

[Kevsleftpeg]

That sounds like you're trying to make it impossible to answer really, because whatever I say you can claim that completely unquantifiable things like confidence and momentum would have been affected. Obviously on a basic level the answer is yes, plenty of other teams have a better record at those grounds than we do.

As I regularly say with these things though, what you're talking about is the manager's responsibility. It's not a case of saying we should go out ultra attacking in every one of these games, it's saying the manager (whoever it is) should find ways to win games. If the way we did that was KITAP1 then great, I have no issue at all with that, the point is just that we have tried that A LOT and it hasn't worked, so I wouldn't be averse to trying something a bit different a bit more regularly.

You're assuming that just because something hasn't worked historically that means there is a better option that would produce better results.. That isn't necessarily the case. I could throw a dart right handed 25 times in a row trying to hit a bullseye and not hit one. Do you think my next throw would have a better or worse chance of hitting a bull if I throw left handed?

 

[Swartzy]

Same. I couldn’t really care. He has transformed us from the dirge we were prior to him, not only keeping us up, but giving us an identity again.

Saying that, the list I just saw had him on £5m and 8th best paid. Considering since he has come in (coming up to a year now), he would have us in 7th across that period, could argue he is slightly underpaid.

5m to remove us from Dycheball, think anybody would have taken that, no matter how much they dislike Moyes.

 

[Swartzy]

You're assuming that just because something hasn't worked historically that means there is a better option that would produce better results.. That isn't necessarily the case. I could throw a dart right handed 25 times in a row trying to hit a bullseye and not hit one. Do you think my next throw would have a better or worse chance of hitting a bull if I throw left handed?

Well, It cant be any worse can it..

 

[Groucho]

Same. I couldn’t really care. He has transformed us from the dirge we were prior to him, not only keeping us up, but giving us an identity again.

Saying that, the list I just saw had him on £5m and 8th best paid. Considering since he has come in (coming up to a year now), he would have us in 7th across that period, could argue he is slightly underpaid.

I think the stability he brings following such turbulent times is valuable in itself.

 

[Lanolin]

You're assuming that just because something hasn't worked historically that means there is a better option that would produce better results.. That isn't necessarily the case. I could throw a dart right handed 25 times in a row trying to hit a bullseye and not hit one. Do you think my next throw would have a better or worse chance of hitting a bull if I throw left handed?

Well i'd need to know whether you were left or right handed to be able to offer an answer so it's not a great question to be honest.

 

[JobForTheMoyes]

Martinez’ first season was no better than Moyes’ last. The team the season before would have gotten Champions League with Lukaku up front. It was an excellent side from back to front, with the crucial missing ingredient of a top finisher.

To me it was like when Peter Taylor took over at Leicester from Martin O’Neill. The group still had that muscle memory as a team but it eroded the longer the new manager was in charge.

 

[PhoenixFirebird]

My take is simply this...

We are where we are... After Moyes MkI, we tried a lot of different managers, I would say (everyone can say differently), none of those, were of the Moyes' mould, where did that lead us? 11 years of what exactly??? We HAVE tried differently, it just led us in a spiral, so let this manager try what has worked well in the past and is working well in the here and now....

Record against the big teams, sure it's a concern, Moyes setting up to defend sure it could be a concern for some. You dislike Moyes, becasue he doesn't allow you to dream big, sure you can-not-like-it. That does not make the manager a person to hate, that's stupid...
BTW, given free reign, somewhat, he DID win a European cup, what have we achieved, diddly squat. You can deride the Conference Cup as much as you want, it was WON by playing teams and reaching Semis of Europa is also not something to be dismissed willy-nilly.

He has proven, he has chops if allowed to do things his way, it was only when (rumoured of course), the owners started interfering that the results plummeted, even then WHU finished 9th in his last season with them. So He does do things right, just needs freedom to operate his way.

Let him do things his way, things don't work, sure replace him. It's a result oriented business after all. Don't judge because you don't and didn't like him at all. Look at the results and where we are....

In the whole of last year, how many weeks were we in top ten? 0/38. This year? 6/7 So must be doing somethings right.... Let that build first, before you declare your undying hate for the man....