Didn't stand a chance at United. The players had zero respect for him because he had won sod all.
What is his ceiing? I don't know but I wouldn't make an assumption based on what happened at United.
What is his ceiing? I don't know but I wouldn't make an assumption based on what happened at United.
Efcjake
All the awards
Can we ban these AI slop posts please.Here are some damning, context-rich stats about Roberto Martínez’s time at Everton (2013–2016), framed around squad quality, where Everton started, and where they ended up:
Everton Before Martínez (Context / Starting Point)
Under David Moyes (2002–2013), Everton were:
- Consistently top-eight finishers (7 top-8 finishes in 8 seasons).
- Defensively elite: averaging 44 league goals conceded per season in Moyes’ last 5 seasons.
- Highly disciplined and structured, built around prime-age players (Baines, Jagielka, Coleman emerging; Fellaini; Pienaar; Osman; Howard).
- Financially stable but not extravagant—yet clearly overachieving.
Essentially: a top-7 club with a top-6 defensive record and a well-drilled identity.
Martínez’s First Season (2013–14) – The Peak Before the Collapse
It started brilliantly with a record points haul:
- 72 points – Everton’s highest-ever Premier League total.
- Only 39 goals conceded – still Moyes’ defensive structure.
- Baines–Coleman full-back peak, Lukaku on loan, Barkley breakout, prime Stones/Jagielka.
But this season increasingly looks like the illusion:
- 13 of the starting XI were the same players Moyes left, plus a loaned Lukaku.
- Expected goals against (xGA) trends already showed slippage in the second half of the season.
The Decline (2014–15 & 2015–16) – Where It All Fell Apart
1. Defensive collapse despite high-quality defenders
Martínez took a Moyes-built defence and turned it into one of the league’s leakiest:
This happened while fielding:
Season2013–14
39
3rd-best defence
**2014–15
50
Mid-table**
**2015–16
55
15th-best**
- Prime Baines
- Prime Coleman
- Prime Jagielka
- John Stones (one of the best young CBs in Europe)
No manager got less defensive output from more defensive talent than Martínez did in that period.
2. Massive underperformance vs. squad quality
The squad had Lukaku, Barkley, Deulofeu, Stones, Baines, Coleman, Mirallas, Naismith, McCarthy — on paper a genuine top-6 squad.
Yet Martinez delivered:
- 11th place in 2014–15
- 11th place in 2015–16
- Only 15 league wins across his final 50 PL games
For talent level, those finishes are among the worst underperformances in modern Everton history.
3. But the worst stat: leads blown
Martínez teams were notoriously fragile:
- Everton dropped 47 points from winning positions across his last two seasons.
- In 2015–16 alone:
- 22 points lost from leading positions
- Worst in the Premier League
This is the hallmark of a disorganised, naïve defensive structure.
4. A possession myth – sterile domination
Martínez often claimed Everton “controlled games,” but:
- Everton had the 3rd-highest possession in the league at times
- Yet finished with the 12th-best defence and bottom-half points return
Possession ≠ control → his possession was passive, sideways, and defensively costly.
5. Home form collapse (Goodison became easy)
Goodison, once one of the league’s most hostile grounds under Moyes, became:
- 11 home wins across his final 2 seasons combined
- Only 5 home wins in 2015–16
- Worst Everton home record in decades
Supporters turning on him became inevitable.
6. Cup runs masked league failure
Yes, Everton reached the 2016 FA Cup and League Cup semifinals…
…but in the league over the same period:
- Only 1 win in 10 league games before his sacking
- No clean sheet in the final 10 matches
Cup runs hid a near-total collapse of league competitiveness.
Ending Point vs Starting Point
Where Martínez Found Everton (2013)
- Top-7 club
- Elite defence
- Hard to beat
- Cohesive, disciplined squad
- Clear identity
Where He Left Them (2016)
- Back-to-back 11th-place finishes
- One of the worst defensive records in the league
- Dressing room fractured
- Fans openly hostile
- Key talents wanting out (Lukaku, Stones)
- Identity demolished
He inherited a high-floor, stable club and left it unstable, defensively broken, and mentally fragile.
Summary: The Most Damning Line
Roberto Martínez took Everton from their highest-ever Premier League points tally to their worst defensive record in decades within 24 months — despite having one of the strongest squads the club had in the 21st century.
If you want, I can also compile:
a chart of his defensive decline,
a comparison to Moyes and Koeman, or
a narrative-style “case against Martínez” you can quote.
I prefer my opinions fired off the dome with alcoholic and cocaine addictions fueling the passion.
I don't think ChatGPT would offer anyone out at a Morrisons besides Grok or Copilot. Maybe we should just skip the middle man and feed one of these other ones @davek 's post history.
I dunno, I like them. Bound to upset Dave, this:
David Moyes is widely regarded as an all-time great Everton manager primarily because he brought stability, consistency, and restored pride to the club during a period when they were struggling.
Here is a breakdown of the key reasons for his legendary status at Goodison Park:
Stability and Transformation* Restoring Order: Moyes arrived in March 2002 when Everton were battling relegation. He immediately stabilised the club, famously proclaiming Everton as "The People's Club."
* Long Tenure: His 11-year spell (2002–2013) provided an immense period of stability, which is a rarity in modern football, allowing him to build a coherent, long-term project.
* Consistency with Limited Resources: Year after year, Moyes managed to guide Everton to top-half finishes, consistently punching above their financial weight when compared to the Premier League's "Big Four" (Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, and Manchester United).
Major Achievements* Breaking the Top Four: In the 2004-05 season, Moyes led Everton to a stunning 4th-place finish in the Premier League, securing a spot in the UEFA Champions League qualifiers. This was an exceptional achievement at the time, breaking the dominance of the established elite.
* European Football: He guided the club to regular European qualification, including the UEFA Cup/Europa League, which had been a rare occurrence for the club before his arrival.
* Cup Final Appearance: He led Everton to the 2009 FA Cup Final at Wembley, which they unfortunately lost to Chelsea.
Developing PlayersMoyes had a phenomenal track record for spotting talent and developing players, often on a modest budget:
* Emergence of Key Figures: He oversaw the development of future stars like Wayne Rooney and later built the team around players he signed or nurtured, such as Tim Cahill, Mikel Arteta, Joleon Lescott, and Leighton Baines.
* Smart Transfers: His reputation for shrewd transfer business meant he often brought in players who significantly outperformed their transfer fees.
Legacy and Foundation* Setting a Standard: Moyes raised the overall standard and expectation at the club. Under his management, Everton became a consistently competitive and difficult opponent for any team in the league.
* High Win Rate: His time saw him achieve a significant number of wins for the club. For a period, he held the record for the most matches won by an Everton manager in the Premier League.
In essence, David Moyes took an underachieving club, battling at the bottom end of the table, and transformed them into a solid, respected, and competitive side that regularly challenged for European places, doing so with far fewer resources than their rivals. This sustained overachievement is why he is revered as an all-time great.
It depends on how @davek spins it. As ever.
Before I joined GOT I used to have to think for myself. Now I just go with what the oracle tells me.
I dunno, I like them. Bound to upset Dave, this:
David Moyes is widely regarded as an all-time great Everton manager primarily because he brought stability, consistency, and restored pride to the club during a period when they were struggling.
Here is a breakdown of the key reasons for his legendary status at Goodison Park:
* Restoring Order: Moyes arrived in March 2002 when Everton were battling relegation. He immediately stabilised the club, famously proclaiming Everton as "The People's Club."
* Long Tenure: His 11-year spell (2002–2013) provided an immense period of stability, which is a rarity in modern football, allowing him to build a coherent, long-term project.
* Consistency with Limited Resources: Year after year, Moyes managed to guide Everton to top-half finishes, consistently punching above their financial weight when compared to the Premier League's "Big Four" (Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, and Manchester United).
* Breaking the Top Four: In the 2004-05 season, Moyes led Everton to a stunning 4th-place finish in the Premier League, securing a spot in the UEFA Champions League qualifiers. This was an exceptional achievement at the time, breaking the dominance of the established elite.
* European Football: He guided the club to regular European qualification, including the UEFA Cup/Europa League, which had been a rare occurrence for the club before his arrival.
* Cup Final Appearance: He led Everton to the 2009 FA Cup Final at Wembley, which they unfortunately lost to Chelsea.
Moyes had a phenomenal track record for spotting talent and developing players, often on a modest budget:
* Emergence of Key Figures: He oversaw the development of future stars like Wayne Rooney and later built the team around players he signed or nurtured, such as Tim Cahill, Mikel Arteta, Joleon Lescott, and Leighton Baines.
* Smart Transfers: His reputation for shrewd transfer business meant he often brought in players who significantly outperformed their transfer fees.
* Setting a Standard: Moyes raised the overall standard and expectation at the club. Under his management, Everton became a consistently competitive and difficult opponent for any team in the league.
* High Win Rate: His time saw him achieve a significant number of wins for the club. For a period, he held the record for the most matches won by an Everton manager in the Premier League.
In essence, David Moyes took an underachieving club, battling at the bottom end of the table, and transformed them into a solid, respected, and competitive side that regularly challenged for European places, doing so with far fewer resources than their rivals. This sustained overachievement is why he is revered as an all-time great.
Efcjake
All the awards
They're worse than Damo posts for their mad formatting and emoticons. I can only imagine how he's used it to convince himself he's a financial expert.I dunno, I like them. Bound to upset Dave, this:
David Moyes is widely regarded as an all-time great Everton manager primarily because he brought stability, consistency, and restored pride to the club during a period when they were struggling.
Here is a breakdown of the key reasons for his legendary status at Goodison Park:
* Restoring Order: Moyes arrived in March 2002 when Everton were battling relegation. He immediately stabilised the club, famously proclaiming Everton as "The People's Club."
* Long Tenure: His 11-year spell (2002–2013) provided an immense period of stability, which is a rarity in modern football, allowing him to build a coherent, long-term project.
* Consistency with Limited Resources: Year after year, Moyes managed to guide Everton to top-half finishes, consistently punching above their financial weight when compared to the Premier League's "Big Four" (Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, and Manchester United).
* Breaking the Top Four: In the 2004-05 season, Moyes led Everton to a stunning 4th-place finish in the Premier League, securing a spot in the UEFA Champions League qualifiers. This was an exceptional achievement at the time, breaking the dominance of the established elite.
* European Football: He guided the club to regular European qualification, including the UEFA Cup/Europa League, which had been a rare occurrence for the club before his arrival.
* Cup Final Appearance: He led Everton to the 2009 FA Cup Final at Wembley, which they unfortunately lost to Chelsea.
Moyes had a phenomenal track record for spotting talent and developing players, often on a modest budget:
* Emergence of Key Figures: He oversaw the development of future stars like Wayne Rooney and later built the team around players he signed or nurtured, such as Tim Cahill, Mikel Arteta, Joleon Lescott, and Leighton Baines.
* Smart Transfers: His reputation for shrewd transfer business meant he often brought in players who significantly outperformed their transfer fees.
* Setting a Standard: Moyes raised the overall standard and expectation at the club. Under his management, Everton became a consistently competitive and difficult opponent for any team in the league.
* High Win Rate: His time saw him achieve a significant number of wins for the club. For a period, he held the record for the most matches won by an Everton manager in the Premier League.
In essence, David Moyes took an underachieving club, battling at the bottom end of the table, and transformed them into a solid, respected, and competitive side that regularly challenged for European places, doing so with far fewer resources than their rivals. This sustained overachievement is why he is revered as an all-time great.
I like my David Moyes opinions to be baked in to the poster's core identity. You already know if you're Moyes In or Out if you watched him here for over a decade the first time.
ChatGPT hasn't suffered through watching all of those whimpering knife to a gunfight derbies that we all have. We earned our right to have an opinion and resolutely refuse to budge from it regardless of short term results. You plant that flag and you defend it with your life and reputation.
Using data to develop an informed opinion is not what GOT is about imo.
if the sky is green
to dave its purple
to dave its purple
This is true.So it’s a rubbish league but also the strongest in Europe/the world? So either the entire world has suddenly become rubbish at footy, or you are wrong on the internet. Which is more likely?
Does make me wonder though why records keep getting broken in other sports. People can run and swim faster, jump higher and longer and can throw further. Golf courses are being lengthened because players can hit it further (although I do appreciate that equipment is better).
Football seems to being left behind. You would think that with advances around training, diets, sports science et al, that footballers would be getting better not worse.
Go back to when we had our 'good times' in 1985. Who did we have that was technically gifted? Southall, Steven and Sheedy. The rest were good players who worked hard for the team.
Not to mention the horribly tense last few seasons festooned with a combination of sub-standard players and managers inflicting anti-football on us.
Moyes had his downsides, but I'll take this season so far over the last few. No bother.
Yep a good team needs to be able to get stuck in as well as showboat. And also know when to do each aspect.
Clearly he hasn't got a clue about football. He said that Moyes is doing a good job!
I love how he pronounces Moyèz
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