Dave Chappelle Sticks and Stones

[longers]

Im fine with comedians causing offence so long as the jokes are actually amusing and witty, the trouble is that a lot of right wingers who screech about free speech all the time don't factor this in and just back any comedian making offensive jokes regardless of how well delivered the joke is... they seem to find the 'being offensive' part the funny bit rather than the actual delivery and wit behind it.

For example I've been a fan of Louis CK for years but his comeback gig was just straight up trash tbh, really lazy material that basically just sounded like a middle aged dad ranting about todays generation.... and yet just because it was a bit offensive the right heralded it as some amazing piece of comedy even though it was without question the most half arsed material he's ever come up with.

 

[Disgruntledgoat]

Im fine with comedians causing offence so long as the jokes are actually amusing and witty, the trouble is that a lot of right wingers who screech about free speech all the time don't factor this in and just back any comedian making offensive jokes regardless of how well delivered the joke is... they seem to find the 'being offensive' part the funny bit rather than the actual delivery and wit behind it.

For example I've been a fan of Louis CK for years but his comeback gig was just straight up trash tbh, really lazy material that basically just sounded like a middle aged dad ranting about todays generation.... and yet just because it was a bit offensive the right heralded it as some amazing piece of comedy even though it was without question the most half arsed material he's ever come up with.

To be fair there are a number of comedians who have based their entire career on "saying the unsayable" and not making it funny.

 

[dholliday]

Im fine with comedians causing offence so long as the jokes are actually amusing and witty, the trouble is that a lot of right wingers who screech about free speech all the time don't factor this in and just back any comedian making offensive jokes regardless of how well delivered the joke is... they seem to find the 'being offensive' part the funny bit rather than the actual delivery and wit behind it.

There is that too. Fans of Milo Y are guilty of this. I eventually got turned off him because he was often just mean...seemed to have lost his funny bones at some point.

But the links I shared on the last page are from mainstream liberal publications mostly. It is the big issue for todays' comedians regardless of political stripe.

 

[dead_soft]

This is a well-known issue. The modern 'progressive' Left has replaced the Mary Whitehouse Christian Right brigade. The Offence-ometer has politically turned 180°.

If you are genuinely unaware, here's some mainstream discussion on it from the last 12 months:

Is the snowflake generation really about to kill off comedy?

Political correctness is forcing more comics to delicately tip-toe around issues of race, class and sexuality. But is self-censoring and avoiding offensive topics the answer to keeping a career in laughs?

www.independent.co.uk

Can comedy survive in an age of outrage?

Comedy is under scrutiny as never before. So when is a joke not a joke?

amp.theguardian.com

Comedian refused to sign 'behavioural agreement' before gig - BBC News

Konstantin Kisin turned down the gig, saying the "behavioural agreement" form nearly made him "puke".

www.bbc.com

Stand-up comics should concentrate on being funny: so don’t take offence if they are

Comedians are being told to avoid joking about some things – and that’s not funny.

theconversation.com

Opinion: Why PC Culture is Killing Comedy

“Two businessmen bought the Milwaukee Bucks for $550 million. They are very excited with their purchase, as this is the only legal way to own black people,” said Norm Macdonald on his podcast a while back. Jokes like this fly less easily in today’s America. People would immediately protest...

srhsoffleash.org

I never said the debate didn’t exist. I’m questioning whether it is causing the major problems you say. Ricky Gervais is still getting booked for major gigs, he’s still getting TV shows. Who are the big comics who have fallen down because of ‘PC’ culture? Numbers are up at comedy venues, more comedy is being seen by the public, one of the biggest shows of recent times was Hannah’s Gadsby and you can’t realky suggest that pulled its punches?
Also, You say it’s the progressive left you have an issue with (and no surprise you linked Rogan with that) but The Guardian article you linked to used the example of Forage. I’m not sure, if true, this is a purely left wing thing.

 

[dholliday]

I never said the debate didn’t exist. I’m questioning whether it is causing the major problems you say.

hence why i linked all those references, including stories of comedians getting thrown out or having to sign 'no-offence' clauses.

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

This isn't really about Chappelle but more an overall observation that I've come to when seeing matters like this discussed

There's definitely a feeling among some (On both sides of the left/right divide) that something is only satirical provided it targets a person/group/belief that they expressly don't like or agree with. Once the target becomes something they do like or agree with, they suddenly decide that it's no longer satire, and thus the protection that satire provides needs to be stripped away

Satire is satire at the end of the day, regardless of whether you like what it's satirising or not, and should be protected

 

[Disgruntledgoat]

I never said the debate didn’t exist. I’m questioning whether it is causing the major problems you say. Ricky Gervais is still getting booked for major gigs, he’s still getting TV shows. Who are the big comics who have fallen down because of ‘PC’ culture? Numbers are up at comedy venues, more comedy is being seen by the public, one of the biggest shows of recent times was Hannah’s Gadsby and you can’t realky suggest that pulled its punches?
Also, You say it’s the progressive left you have an issue with (and no surprise you linked Rogan with that) but The Guardian article you linked to used the example of Forage. I’m not sure, if true, this is a purely left wing thing.

It's not a left or right thing, these invented offences are just a way of scoring points against the other side of the Culture Wars.

Comedians (some of whom make me laugh, some who don't) who have fallen foul of the outrage machine include: Bill Burr, Frankie Boyle, Sarah Silverman, several much loved episodes of the Simpsons, Roseanne Barr and Kevin Hart.

 

[dholliday]

This isn't really about Chappelle but more an overall observation that I've come to when seeing matters like this discussed

There's definitely a feeling among some (On both sides of the left/right divide) that something is only satirical provided it targets a person/group/belief that they expressly don't like or agree with. Once the target becomes something they do like or agree with, they suddenly decide that it's no longer satire, and thus the protection that satire provides needs to be stripped away

Satire is satire at the end of the day, regardless of whether you like what it's satirising or not, and should be protected

Aye. You're referring to the punch-up/punch-down idea.

punch-up: Tories, white males, conservatives/rightwingers, Christians...basically the 'priviliged'. It's ok to satirise these groups.

punch-down: non-white folk, muslims, 'poor' liberal students...basically the 'oppressed'. It's not ok to satirise these groups.

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

I think with critics in general you have to go in accepting that it's just someone's opinion and that it isn't fact

My advice is to find a critic that you find you usually agree with and use them as the deciding vote when you're on the fence about something

Roger Ebert was usually my go-to guy when it came to movies, as I often found we would generally agree, so he was always a good barometer for me when it came to decided whether to see something

 

[Disgruntledgoat]

Aye. You're referring to the punch-up/punch-down idea.

punch-up: Tories, white males, conservatives/rightwingers, Christians...basically the 'priviliged'. It's ok to satirise these groups.

punch-down: non-white folk, muslims, 'poor' liberal students...basically the 'opressed'. It's not ok to satirise these groups.

Whereas I say the only test of whether comedy is good or not is... Does it make me laugh?

Here's a great joke from a very good live comedian who's views I find distasteful: Its Bernard Manning. In his club, a few weeks after the Falklands war ended he starts whipping up the crowd saying "We've got two special guests tonight! Two very brave lads, they've just got back from fighting for their country! Both seen their friends die in the service..." By now the crowd are whooping it up in a patriotic fervor... "Give a round of applause for Juan and Carlos!"

That, to me at least, is hilarious. He's subverted his audiences expectations and shoved their hypocrisy in their faces. I am capable of recognizing that I don't have to endorse everything a performer says to appreciate their craft.

Which is what made the nasty little hit piece that Marcus Brigstoke, a man who has officially never made anybody laugh, had in the guardian the day after Manning died all the meaner.

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

Whereas I say the only test of whether comedy is good or not is... Does it make me laugh?

Here's a great joke from a very good live comedian who's views I find distasteful: Its Bernard Manning. In his club, a few weeks after the Falklands war ended he starts whipping up the crowd saying "We've got two special guests tonight! Two very brave lads, they've just got back from fighting for their country! Both seen their friends die in the service..." By now the crowd are whooping it up in a patriotic fervor... "Give a round of applause for Juan and Carlos!"

That, to me at least, is hilarious. He's subverted his audiences expectations and shoved their hypocrisy in their faces. I am capable of recognizing that I don't have to endorse everything a performer says to appreciate their craft.

Which is what made the nasty little hit piece that Marcus Brigstoke, a man who has officially never made anybody laugh, had in the guardian the day after Manning died all the meaner.

Brigstocke is very much a panel show comic to me

Good at dispensing lines in that sort of environment, but I wouldn't want to watch him do stand up

No shame in that of course, it's just a different skill set

 

[dholliday]

Whereas I say the only test of whether comedy is good or not is... Does it make me laugh?

Here's a great joke from a very good live comedian who's views I find distasteful: Its Bernard Manning. In his club, a few weeks after the Falklands war ended he starts whipping up the crowd saying "We've got two special guests tonight! Two very brave lads, they've just got back from fighting for their country! Both seen their friends die in the service..." By now the crowd are whooping it up in a patriotic fervor... "Give a round of applause for Juan and Carlos!"

That, to me at least, is hilarious. He's subverted his audiences expectations and shoved their hypocrisy in their faces. I am capable of recognizing that I don't have to endorse everything a performer says to appreciate their craft.

Which is what made the nasty little hit piece that Marcus Brigstoke, a man who has officially never made anybody laugh, had in the guardian the day after Manning died all the meaner.

what's funny is often in the eye of the beholder. i like oldschool deadpan types which don't really do offence like Milton Jones and Tommy Cooper. But i recognise Bernard Manning had talent and expert comic timing, i do personally find some of his content below-the-belt (of the 'punch-down' variety) but it was never hateful as far as i'm aware hence i wouldn't support censorship of Manning's material.

 

[Disgruntledgoat]

Brigstocke is very much a panel show comic to me

Good at dispensing lines in that sort of environment, but I wouldn't want to watch him do stand up

No shame in that of course, it's just a different skill set

Each to their own. For me, he's one of those people who got into the BBC through connections (Cambridge, his brother directing a couple of Alan Partridge episodes) and knew he'd never make it on the outside. His only humour is snark.

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

Each to their own. For me, he's one of those people who got into the BBC through connections (Cambridge, his brother directing a couple of Alan Partridge episodes) and knew he'd never make it on the outside. His only humour is snark.

I used to listen to "The 99p Challenge" and I always liked him on that

Great show that. Gave the likes of Simon Pegg and Nick Frost some of their earliest exposure. Had a couple of series downloaded to my I-Pod before it finally bit the dust

 

[jaycee]

I havent found a comedian that has outraged me,there are some I find unfunny,Chubby Brown for example I just find tedious,but if there was a comic I found offensive I simply wouldnt go and watch the show