Cryptocurrencies

[Bruce Wayne]

I wonder if the traditional banks would ever create or use a block chain based system. I think that’s the way it will go.

All of this is maybe just a pre cursor to new forms of monetary transactions.

The thing is, a technology is only as good as the problem it solves. Blockchain is essentially a way of storing information, so the question is whether the existing system has a big enough problem in this way to require blockchain. If the open banking standards continue to advance and thus make data more portable, it would kinda negate the need for a new technology infrastructure, especially given the enormous technical limitations of Bitcoin at the moment regarding processing costs etc.

 

[Muggins]

The thing is, a technology is only as good as the problem it solves. Blockchain is essentially a way of storing information, so the question is whether the existing system has a big enough problem in this way to require blockchain. If the open banking standards continue to advance and thus make data more portable, it would kinda negate the need for a new technology infrastructure, especially given the enormous technical limitations of Bitcoin at the moment regarding processing costs etc.

Have you got links to any decent articles on the new open banking Bruce?

I’ve had a quick read and I see your point.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Have you got links to any decent articles on the new open banking Bruce?

I’ve had a quick read and I see your point.

The ODI are good on this kind of thing - https://theodi.org/open-banking-standard

 

[orly]

Another 10% down start to the day, will we see $9k today??

 

[Deleted member 28206]

Morning

 

[xreyuk123]

I was up about 130% on £300 investment until the end of last week.

I'm now about 40% up. Time to hold hard. It will recover.

Trends have shown that a dip happens every January. American's cash out to pay their taxes, Asia cashes out to pay for Chinese New Year, all causing it to drop.

Couple that with the bitcoin stuff that's due today (I'm not entirely sure what it is but from my understanding, it's believed rich people are driving bitcoin down as there is an event today which means the lower the price of bitcoin, the richer they all get), and I'm not surprised it's dropped.

It's also worth noting that Bitcoin has dropped under its 100 day MA. The past 6 times it's dropped underneath its 100 day MA, it's hit a new ATH 2-3 months later.

Finally, everyone is panicking the whole market is crashing. We are currently at a market cap, which is the same as 23 days ago. We've only gone 23 days back in time, where the market cap was still higher than it had ever been before.

If you had anything, unless you sold last Friday, no point in selling now, the market will recover.

 

[xreyuk123]

Couple that with the bitcoin stuff that's due today (I'm not entirely sure what it is but from my understanding, it's believed rich people are driving bitcoin down as there is an event today which means the lower the price of bitcoin, the richer they all get), and I'm not surprised it's dropped.

Did a bit of research into this and here's an explanation of what's due today. Explanation below.

On December 10, BTC futures trading went live. The first set of those contracts is set to expire tomorrow, January 17.

For those who don't know, futures contracts are agreements to buy/sell an asset (like BTC) at a specified future date and price. As the price of BTC was ~$15,000 on Dec. 10 , the first BTC futures contracts, which expire tomorrow, were fixed at about that same price. In a simplified form, this means that tomorrow:

• the "short" side of those contracts must give the "long" side a BTC (which could simply be bought at tomorrow's market price) [Edit: as others have pointed out, these contracts are cash settled, so the "short" side doesn't actually swap a BTC - it just pays the BTC market price at expiration. However, the net result is the same either way] ; and
  
• the "long" side of those contracts must pay the "short" side $15,000 in return.

Now imagine you are a large hedge fund evaluating these contracts, and the crypto market as a whole, on Dec. 10. Obviously, making a large bet on either the "long" or "short" side is extremely risky, since the price of BTC when the contracts expire (January 17) could very easily be $50,000 or $500. This makes large bets on either side a bad option for a large institutional investor like yourself.

However, you also know that crypto is still an emerging market with a large amount of new investors and "dumb money." And because you are a large hedge fund, futures contracts opens the door to a third option: make large bets on BOTH sides to gain risk-free market leverage, use that leverage to manufacture market chaos, and profit on the near-guaranteed ripple effects of that chaos with virtually no risk. Here is how:

• Bet big on the "short" side of the futures contracts on Dec. 10. Let's say you do this for 10,000 BTCs. This means that on January 17 you will owe 10,000 BTCs (Edit: cash equivalent) to the "long" side of those contracts, receiving $15k per BTC ($150,000,000) in return.
  
  
• Buy an equally large amount of BTC on Dec. 10 at the market price ($15k/BTC). This cancels out your risk/reward for the futures contracts entirely, making you immune to all changes in BTC's price while you hold both the contracts and BTCs. This also allows you to accumulate and hold an extremely large portion of the BTC market while taking essentially no risk.
  
  
• Shortly before your futures contracts expire, dump all of your 10,000 BTC on the market at once. Like clockwork, this will trigger stop-losses and panic sells from the consumer BTC market, virtually guaranteeing that the BTC price will continue to dip well below whatever price you just sold those 10,000 BTC for.
  
  
• Ride that dip you just created to buy back the 10,000 BTC for much less than the price you just sold them for. This is particularly easy, since the funds you need are already liquid and ready to get back in the market.
  
  
• Use the re-purchased 10,000 BTC for the expiring futures contracts, which get swapped for your initial investment ($15k/BTC). The difference in the price that you sold the 10,000 BTCs to start the dip from the price that you bought the BTCs back during the dip becomes your net profit.

 

[orly]

you are not orly and this fall has not yet proved terminal. short at your peril.

Did a bit of research into this and here's an explanation of what's due today. Explanation below.

However, you also know that crypto is still an emerging market with a large amount of new investors and "dumb money." And because you are a large hedge fund, futures contracts opens the door to a third option: make large bets on BOTH sides to gain risk-free market leverage, use that leverage to manufacture market chaos, and profit on the near-guaranteed ripple effects of that chaos with virtually no risk. Here is how:

Bet big on the "short" side of the futures contracts on Dec. 10. Let's say you do this for 10,000 BTCs. This means that on January 17 you will owe 10,000 BTCs (Edit: cash equivalent) to the "long" side of those contracts, receiving $15k per BTC ($150,000,000) in return.

Buy an equally large amount of BTC on Dec. 10 at the market price ($15k/BTC). This cancels out your risk/reward for the futures contracts entirely, making you immune to all changes in BTC's price while you hold both the contracts and BTCs. This also allows you to accumulate and hold an extremely large portion of the BTC market while taking essentially no risk.

Shortly before your futures contracts expire, dump all of your 10,000 BTC on the market at once. Like clockwork, this will trigger stop-losses and panic sells from the consumer BTC market, virtually guaranteeing that the BTC price will continue to dip well below whatever price you just sold those 10,000 BTC for.

Ride that dip you just created to buy back the 10,000 BTC for much less than the price you just sold them for. This is particularly easy, since the funds you need are already liquid and ready to get back in the market.

Use the re-purchased 10,000 BTC for the expiring futures contracts, which get swapped for your initial investment ($15k/BTC). The difference in the price that you sold the 10,000 BTCs to start the dip from the price that you bought the BTCs back during the dip becomes your net profit.

As mentioned Kev - it was shorted when the Futures opened, will get to about $9k and will rally.


Anyone want to buy my new CarrillionCoin?

 

[Bungle]

As mentioned Kev - it was shorted when the Futures opened, will get to about $9k and will rally.


Anyone want to buy my new CarrillionCoin?

The UK Government are interested in them mate, if you tell them that they're utterly worthless you'll probably be able to increase the number they buy from you.

 

[Tramps_mate]

If the Chinese go full blown on banning crypto currencies then it is dead.

I'd get out now.

 

[evilwebby]

Very good buying op now.

^_^

 

[orly]

Hit $9.9.k and.... on the way back up.

Who could possibly have predicted this

 

[evilwebby]

Hit $9.9.k and.... on the way back up.

Who could possibly have predicted this

The rally to 17k in Dec was the classic bull trap. From there on it'll bump around but in a series of lower highs and then lower lows (dow theory)... not higher highs and higher lows.

 

[orly]

The rally to 17k in Dec was the classic bull trap. From there on it'll bump around but in a series of lower highs and then lower lows (dow theory)... not higher highs and higher lows.

I think we will see $15k again by March 2018.

 

[evilwebby]

Not if you want a return on OF your investment.

fixed that for you.