Could you be a defence lawyer?

[Tree13]

You speaking of public defenders, because private practice lawyers arent as honest in there work, or at least the good ones arent

You know my background mate - what's your basis for making such a sweeping statement?

The regulatory regime for Solicitors, and also the one for Barristers, is world-renowned for being very, very harsh - far more so than the General Medical Council or the IPCC, for comparison. Dishonest lawyers don't last very long in the UK and in the current climate, where there is simply not enough money to go around, it is rigorously self-policed. Every Solicitor I know would happily grass another Solicitor up to the SRA at the merest hint of wrongdoing, because that Solicitor would immediately be suspended while the investigation took place.

I'd be intrigued to hear what it is you know that I don't.

 

[sageyefc]

You know my background mate - what's your basis for making such a sweeping statement?

The regulatory regime for Solicitors, and also the one for Barristers, is world-renowned for being very, very harsh - far more so than the General Medical Council or the IPCC, for comparison. Dishonest lawyers don't last very long in the UK and in the current climate, where there is simply not enough money to go around, it is rigorously self-policed. Every Solicitor I know would happily grass another Solicitor up to the SRA at the merest hint of wrongdoing, because that Solicitor would immediately be suspended while the investigation took place.

I'd be intrigued to hear what it is you know that I don't.

Was referring to you saying the barrister does right by the court first ahead of a client.

Disagree, think the best lawyers are the ones who put the client first and can be a bit creative and not tow the line to much

 

[Tree13]

This thread is turning out to be a lot more interesting and informative than I was expecting.

Anyone know if the Americans have that same rule about not being able to plead innocence if you admit your guilt to your lawyer? Didn't even know it existed in England tbh.

For clarity, the rule in the UK relates to the Solicitor, not the accused.

If the accused demonstrates to their Solicitor that they are guilty, and states that they are guilty, and then instructs the Solicitor to enter a Not Guilty plea, the Solicitor MUST decline to act for the accused. The Solicitor simply informs the Court that they are withdrawing from the case. This rule is crystal clear, and is inseparable from the rule that the Solicitor is first and foremost an officer of the court, and therefore their first duty is to the Court. As an officer of the Court, deliberately misleading the court will get you prison time. No question.

Don't know what the rule is in America, sorry.

 

[Tree13]

Was referring to you saying the barrister does right by the court first ahead of a client.

Disagree, think the best lawyers are the ones who put the client first and can be a bit creative and not tow the line to much

You're stating opinion. I'm telling you what the Bar Council and the SRA impose as professional standards on Barristers and Solicitors.

 

[tonyhorne]

It is no good telling people that they have to defend everyone as well as possible and then moaning when they are successful. If the system fails then it is the fault of those that oversee it, the politicians, civil servants and regulators in Whitehall. It is a feature of modern Britain that the only people who could do anything about things do everything other than help, pay themselves a fortune for failing badly and manage to blame everyone else for the situations they create.

 

[sageyefc]

You're stating opinion. I'm telling you what the Bar Council and the SRA impose as professional standards on Barristers and Solicitors.

Dont even know what we're debating anymore.

Only point i was making is when ive chosen barristers in the past (nothing that serious, no yewtree shouts) ive stuck with the ones who'll fight my corner and use every loop hole or trick going to help me out, obviously not as far as to break the law themselves. But not all of them are so morally perfect.

 

[mezzrow]

This

The legal system, in the UK at least relies a lot on precedents. While it might be tempting to have an obviously guilty 'Norris T. Nonce' thrown to the lions, have his remains locked up with the key thown away; a lawyer has to ensure this does not happen and that his client is treated 'fairly' within the bounds of the law.

The second you start to bias the rules against one group of offenders simply because you don't like their offense is when you start to slide down a slippery slope of injustice for others. Once the precedent has been set in one case, what is to stop the prosecutor using it in another much more mundane case?

 

[bring the ghost on]

when ive chosen barristers in the past (nothing that serious, no yewtree shouts) ive stuck with the ones who'll fight my corner and use every loop hole or trick going to help me out, obviously not as far as to break the law themselves. But not all of them are so morally perfect.

There is certainly nothing wrong with fighting your corner and using the law to your advantage, that is what a good lawyer should be doing.

However, their duty remains to the court above all else. I don't believe anyone has tried to argue that every lawyer is morally perfect, but I think @Tree13 is quite correct to point out that if dishonesty creeps into your work, you do leave yourself open to vast sanctions.

 

[Groucho]

I'd be great at defence.

I'd play Baines, Jags, Stones, Coleman and shift Alcaraz and Distin.

Robles in as well.

 

[Caolam]

Because of my job I be in court quite often, at least once a month. Generally not the High Court. I'll be there all day tomorrow. I've seen all kinds of solicitors and barristers. They are like everyone else, good ones and bad ones, honest ones and dishonest ones.
What I would say is that if British justice is the best in the world I would hate to see the bad ones.
Justice is dispensed in an extremely haphazard way.

 

[icburns]

On what grounds councellor?

The courtroom grounds, obviously.

 

[bring the ghost on]

Because of my job I be in court quite often

Drug dealer?

 

[Caolam]

Drug dealer?

Shhhh

 

[CahillsCornerFlag]

Not many people understand what lawyers do. Too many stereotypes.

I imagine you're right. When I hear defence lawyer the first thing I think of is the Jewish lawyer in the wire who defends barksdale and his crew, when in reality it's probably not very accurate.

 

[SerenityNigh]

Not many people understand what lawyers do. Too many stereotypes.

Met quite a few really nice lawyers. And several that I didn't like at at all.

Got any good lawyer jokes?