Computer games.

ijjysmith · November 22, 2016

The fact it's not turn based has actually raised my interest too.

Mikey_Fitzgerald · November 22, 2016

Tubey said:
No, it'll be action based.

And I'm actually sad and confused that you've never played it. It's brilliant whether you like TBC or not.

I always find this fallacy that people 'don't like' TBC weird. FF7 was one of the biggest selling games of all time with it, yet the industry just randomly decided people didn't want it anymore, so we got crap like FF13 in the modern era.

It's like how survival horror died for a decade - no evidence whatsoever that people didn't want those games, yet the industry decided they didn't for them.

Some of the best and biggest games released in recent years, such as XCOM and Banner Saga, have been turn based, and if you want to go further then card games like Gwent and Hearthstone are a form of turn based combat. As I say, it's a complete fallacy - the vast majority of FF7 Remakes audience wanted that system in place; the decision to not have it is an attempt to appeal to everyone, and as such they'll inevitably appeal to no one.

I think it's stupid for anyone to say *insert genre here* is dead, because there'll always be large numbers somewhere who still like it

I've just never liked turn-based-combat. I did give FFIX a brief go, because my mate was going on about how good it was, and I was certainly impressed by the graphics and atmosphere, but I just didn't enjoy playing it because TBC just isn't enjoyable for me

It's the same reason I haven't ever really been into the Pokemon games really

Different strokes for different folks I guess

I like 2D side scrolling platform games, which I know some people won't touch with a barge pole, so hey-ho

I also don't particularly mind heavily scripted FPS campaigns like you'd find Call of Duty, so long as they're done well

I wasn't expecting them to make it action based to be honest, and they probably shouldn't have as it's a big F-U to original fans, but selfishly I'm rather pleased as it might mean I can actually give it a go this time

Mikey_Fitzgerald · November 22, 2016

ijjysmith said:
The fact it's not turn based has actually raised my interest too.

Bit of a head scratcher to be honest

At least when Capcom re-made the original Resident Evil game for the GameCube it was at least still Resident Evil

Tubey · November 22, 2016

Mikey_Fitzgerald said:
I think it's stupid for anyone to say *insert genre here* is dead, because there'll always be large numbers somewhere who still like it

I've just never liked turn-based-combat. I did give FFIX a brief go, because my mate was going on about how good it was, and I was certainly impressed by the graphics and atmosphere, but I just didn't enjoy playing it because TBC just isn't enjoyable for me

It's the same reason I haven't ever really been into the Pokemon games really

Different strokes for different folks I guess

I like 2D side scrolling platform games, which I know some people won't touch with a barge pole, so hey-ho

I also don't particularly mind heavily scripted FPS campaigns like you'd find Call of Duty, so long as they're done well

I wasn't expecting them to make it action based to be honest, and they probably shouldn't have as it's a big F-U to original fans, but selfishly I'm rather pleased as it might mean I can actually give it a go this time

That's the thing though - it's an attempt to appeal to everybody, and will no doubt appeal to nobody. They should attempt to make a really great title in the genre it's in, rather than tickbox every thing to appeal to the cool kids; which is why we got absolute shockers like Resident Evil 6 and Final Fantasy 13.

Everything is focus group approved, and it leads to terrible games every single time, because people say what they think you want to hear about what they want rather than what they actually want.

You aren't giving the actual game a go if it's action based - you're giving a terrible concession to the vision that made the original great a go.

Mikey_Fitzgerald · November 22, 2016

Tubey said:
You aren't giving the actual game a go if it's action based - you're giving a terrible concession to the vision that made the original great a go.

I think not having the same baggage you do might allow me to enjoy it they happen to make a good action game

It won't be a Final Fantasy game, but it could still be good for what it is

That being said, it might still end up being awful, in which case they'll have betrayed the franchise and made a crap game to boot, in which case knives will rightly be out from the fan base

I'll wait for reviews and see whether I want to give it a go

Tubey · November 22, 2016

Mikey_Fitzgerald said:
I think not having the same baggage you do might allow me to enjoy it they happen to make a good action game

It won't be a Final Fantasy game, but it could still be good for what it is

That being said, it might still end up being awful, in which case they'll have betrayed the franchise and made a crap game to boot, in which case knives will rightly be out from the fan base

I'll wait for reviews and see whether I want to give it a go

If I thought for one second they were making it action based because that was the vision of the creator of the game, I wouldn't have the slightest problem.

However, I'm absolutely certain the only reason it is in action game is because the focus groups have said "that's how a game sells these days".

So it is driven by marketing first rather than the desire to be a good game made with artistic integrity.

neil999 · November 22, 2016

Tubey said:
If I thought for one second they were making it action based because that was the vision of the creator of the game, I wouldn't have the slightest problem.

However, I'm absolutely certain the only reason it is in action game is because the focus groups have said "that's how a game sells these days".

So it is driven by marketing first rather than the desire to be a good game made with artistic integrity.

ive never played FF and dont really know much about it... but seeing the trailers, it just looks like its trying to be a GTA clone

Tubey · November 22, 2016

neil999 said:
ive never played FF and dont really know much about it... but seeing the trailers, it just looks like its trying to be a GTA clone

Not quite that far, but yeah pretty much.

Every game has to tick the box of being like GTA, Call of Duty or whatever. There's a massive market craving top level RPGs and strategy games that are going completely neglected.

neil999 · November 22, 2016

Tubey said:
Not quite that far, but yeah pretty much.

Every game has to tick the box of being like GTA, Call of Duty or whatever. There's a massive market craving top level RPGs and strategy games that are going completely neglected.

mass-popularity certainly seems to have crushed innovation..

its like FIFA/PES, no-one else even bothers trying to make football games now as who would buy them? sadly will mean progression is limited..

ijjysmith · November 22, 2016

neil999 said:
mass-popularity certainly seems to have crushed innovation..

its like FIFA/PES, no-one else even bothers trying to make football games now as who would buy them? sadly will mean progression is limited..

It's difficult though. Why would a games company make an arty type game that a very niche market would buy over a standard game that will sell by the masses?

I know they do make both but still.

Totally agree on the FIFA/PES one though. It's a tragedy that in this day and age that we don't have a football game that is actually like football. Both PES and FIFA are light years away from playing an actual game of football. But as you say nobody will make a different football game for this generation because what would be the point? They'd lose terribly.

neil999 · November 22, 2016

ijjysmith said:
It's difficult though. Why would a games company make an arty type game that a very niche market would buy over a standard game that will sell by the masses?

I know they do make both but still.

Totally agree on the FIFA/PES one though. It's a tragedy that in this day and age that we don't have a football game that is actually like football. Both PES and FIFA are light years away from playing an actual game of football. But as you say nobody will make a different football game for this generation because what would be the point? They'd lose terribly.

yeah not totally blaming them, i guess we do see a bit of innovation with mobile phone games...

the only way we will get proper innovation back is if games get the same recognition as books,music etc and im not sure that will ever happen

Philw · November 22, 2016

Ashtonian said:
here is a game within the game with bosses and stuff to fight, but i never went that far into

The fighting element is more than that imo. Especially if you're out at night, or wander far from your start point you will encounter plenty of enemies who are more than willing to interrupt your house building endeavours!

gaino92 · November 22, 2016

Tubey said:
If I thought for one second they were making it action based because that was the vision of the creator of the game, I wouldn't have the slightest problem.

However, I'm absolutely certain the only reason it is in action game is because the focus groups have said "that's how a game sells these days".

So it is driven by marketing first rather than the desire to be a good game made with artistic integrity.

That's why I've got a rod up my back with the remake. FFX/X-2 was remastered because the fans wanted the same game with better graphics, its sold a shed load of copies and outsold FFXIII-2 by quite a way. Why ruin a game that is revered worldwide as probably the best of its genre. Screw the tying to appease all gamers because it will get slaughtered. You appease your fan base you will sell more games IMO

ijjysmith · November 22, 2016

Tubey said:
If I thought for one second they were making it action based because that was the vision of the creator of the game, I wouldn't have the slightest problem.

However, I'm absolutely certain the only reason it is in action game is because the focus groups have said "that's how a game sells these days".

So it is driven by marketing first rather than the desire to be a good game made with artistic integrity.

Why is it bad if that's what they are going for if that's what sells?

If it sells surely that means people like it. So it's the right thing to do.

Curious as to your opinion on that. Not even taking the pee.

Blue Cheese · November 22, 2016

Tubey said:
Not quite that far, but yeah pretty much.

Every game has to tick the box of being like GTA, Call of Duty or whatever. There's a massive market craving top level RPGs and strategy games that are going completely neglected.

Some fantastic isometric old school TBC RPGs out currently, just bought Tyranny, made by the pillars of eternity People, it's not a dead genre just not as thriving as it could be.