Computer games.

[ijjysmith]

Last and probably only time I ever played a computer game was something called Operation Wolf on an Amstrad computer that lasted about six months

Operation Wolf was utterly immesne.

 

[Dell Boy]

Operation Wolf was utterly immesne.

Got the computer and that game for Christmas one year. My twin brother and I played it literally non-stop. By about December 30th we couldn't sleep properly and looked like war vets with shell shock. Bad times.

 

[dan78]

Last and probably only time I ever played a computer game was something called Operation Wolf on an Amstrad computer that lasted about six months

Jeez this has brought back memories

 

[larrygobfiend]

Finished the remastered Last of us last night, enjoyed it more than my first play through on the PS3. If you have a PS4 and haven't picked it up yet, then give your head a massive wobble! It is utterly amazing.

 

[RaleighBlue]

Lara Croft was so amazingly heroic on Legend.


Do women write video games? I see most writers, producers and developers are male. Do we know of any games or characters that were the vision of a woman?

WAY WAY WAY under represented. I know one of the writers for Mass Effect was a woman. But I've worked in the industry for nearly 10 years now and have never worked with a woman designer or writer. Most of the women in games work in marketing, administrative support staff (HR, accounting and the like), and community management. I have worked with a few programmers and artists/animators that were women as well, but seeing as I've worked with about 3-5 female programmers and 150+ male programmers in my time, the representation is skewed.

Women are terribly underrepresented in development and I absolutely believe that has a negative effect on the sorts of games that are available with strong female leads that are not sex symbols. Even strong female characters must be sexually attractive in games. This is not true of male characters and it absolutely harms the industry.

Basically, the first studio I worked at had about 8 women(most in HR) to 160 men. My current company is better, more like 40 women to 250 men (estimating). This isn't at even the normal problematic levels for working women it's way beyond that.

Some places are better than others, of course, but generally the industry drives women away with it's 'boys club' culture and unprofessionalism. This will become a very real, and very big problem in the next few decades unless it sorts itself out soon.

 

[dholliday]

WAY WAY WAY under represented. I know one of the writers for Mass Effect was a woman. But I've worked in the industry for nearly 10 years now and have never worked with a woman designer or writer. Most of the women in games work in marketing, administrative support staff (HR, accounting and the like), and community management. I have worked with a few programmers and artists/animators that were women as well, but seeing as I've worked with about 3-5 female programmers and 150+ male programmers in my time, the representation is skewed.

Women are terribly underrepresented in development and I absolutely believe that has a negative effect on the sorts of games that are available with strong female leads that are not sex symbols. Even strong female characters must be sexually attractive in games. This is not true of male characters and it absolutely harms the industry.

Basically, the first studio I worked at had about 8 women(most in HR) to 160 men. My current company is better, more like 40 women to 250 men (estimating). This isn't at even the normal problematic levels for working women it's way beyond that.

Some places are better than others, of course, but generally the industry drives women away with it's 'boys club' culture and unprofessionalism. This will become a very real, and very big problem in the next few decades unless it sorts itself out soon.

Good post, cheers. I work in IT and we have the same problem, tho' we're not releasing culture so the effects on society of women being under-represented in our industry is minimal.

Are women just not naturally suited to (or inclined towards) techie work? The women we have had in IT genuinely didn't last long. One project I'm on started with 4 women, all now left, to be replaced by dullard samey males (sorry lads!). Like your experience, the women in my industry tend to work in personell, secretarial, administrative etc, and the engineers and IT bods i support are almost all male.

Tho' you don't have to be that techie to create a concept/story/characters, you have to be creative. In other creative industries like the movies/TV women writers & directors are also under-represented. Only in literature and music are they as present as their male peers, and can comfortably match the quality of output too (PJ Harvey and Anne Rice, for example).

That makes me think women can indeed make a positive meaningful contribution to the visual-entertainment cultures, just that the industry hasn't somehow made it happen.

 

[RaleighBlue]

Good post, cheers. I work in IT and we have the same problem, tho' we're not releasing culture so the effects on society of women being under-represented in our industry is minimal.

Are women just not naturally suited to (or inclined towards) techie work? The women we have had in IT genuinely didn't last long. One project I'm on started with 4 women, all now left, to be replaced by dullard samey males (sorry lads!). Like your experience, the women in my industry tend to work in personell, secretarial, administrative etc, and the engineers and IT bods i support are almost all male.

Tho' you don't have to be that techie to create a concept/story/characters, you have to be creative. In other creative industries like the movies/TV women writers & directors are also under-represented. Only in literature and music are they as present as their male peers, and can comfortably match the quality of output too (PJ Harvey and Anne Rice, for example).

That makes me think women can indeed make a positive meaningful contribution to the visual-entertainment cultures, just that the industry hasn't somehow made it happen.

I think it's cultural and begins at a very young age. Women are 'suited' to English, History, and those subjects in school. Boys are 'suited' to math(s) and sciences. This is all nonsense of course, but I think this is what our children are taught and begin to mold themselves to fit that view to an extent. Technology is often seen as a math-heavy subject.

Even in writing and design, you have to be a gamer to want to get into it. But for years gaming was seen as a nerd-thing. And moreso a nerd-boy thing. So fewer women were exposed to it when we were young. Hopefully that's changing. But even assuming that changes there will still be massive roadblocks to getting into the game industry. Because so many people hold sexist views withing the industry. They may not realize that they do, and they may not actively hate or dislike women, but they'll be much more apt to dismiss an idea or opinion coming from a woman.

To be a woman in tech, and to a much greater extent games, you have to really, really want to do it, and you have to have an amazingly thick skin. It's a boys club. And I do think that harms the output of the industry, because we're missing a very important viewpoint in our games.

I'm hoping that the changing culture that is making all things 'geeky' more inclusive will begin to bring women into the industry, but all you have to do is see the reaction that the internet displayed to Ms. Sarkeesian to know that we are a long, long way off.

Honestly, the whole episode made me seriously question my career path. I do not want to help make that sort of person happy.

 

[dholliday]

I think it's cultural and begins at a very young age. Women are 'suited' to English, History, and those subjects in school. Boys are 'suited' to math(s) and sciences. This is all nonsense of course, but I think this is what our children are taught and begin to mold themselves to fit that view to an extent. Technology is often seen as a math-heavy subject.

Even in writing and design, you have to be a gamer to want to get into it. But for years gaming was seen as a nerd-thing. And moreso a nerd-boy thing. So fewer women were exposed to it when we were young. Hopefully that's changing. But even assuming that changes there will still be massive roadblocks to getting into the game industry. Because so many people hold sexist views withing the industry. They may not realize that they do, and they may not actively hate or dislike women, but they'll be much more apt to dismiss an idea or opinion coming from a woman.

To be a woman in tech, and to a much greater extent games, you have to really, really want to do it, and you have to have an amazingly thick skin. It's a boys club. And I do think that harms the output of the industry, because we're missing a very important viewpoint in our games.

I'm hoping that the changing culture that is making all things 'geeky' more inclusive will begin to bring women into the industry, but all you have to do is see the reaction that the internet displayed to Ms. Sarkeesian to know that we are a long, long way off.

Honestly, the whole episode made me seriously question my career path. I do not want to help make that sort of person happy.

Is right! Check this out. Nerdy old gamer boys are the ones who get the cushy job spying on the rest us:

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...at-gchq-geeky-misogynistic-code-names-tell-us

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...at-gchq-geeky-misogynistic-code-names-tell-us

They are into dance, mid-90s video games and Fireman Sam

They have a penchant for misogynist in-jokes

"Angry Pirate", a tool that permanently disables its target's user account, is named after a proposed sex act that involves punching and kicking a woman while "Stealth Moose" and "Swamp Donkey", the names given to a pair of malicious programs, are derogatory slang terms for ugly women.

They love comic books – especially X-Men

And, predictably, they like both Star Wars and Star Trek
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...at-gchq-geeky-misogynistic-code-names-tell-us

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...at-gchq-geeky-misogynistic-code-names-tell-us


Now there's obviously nowt wrong with liking any of these things (most of us do), but what's telling is when these subcultures are overpopulated by sexist virgin geeks then culture as a whole is missing out. Nevermind the wider story of the dubious morals of these people being the ones in charge of spying against us.

 

[Smudge1985]

Its a similar thing I suppose to all those 'gamer girl' memes. I dont know when we were ever a different breed to gamer boys! Ive never really had a problem playing online games as a girl, my Gamertag doesnt have any clues in it that Im a girl, and my voice isnt a dead giveaway either. My friend has had a lot of abuse though. And for all those comments, jokes that gamer girls are what every man dreams of, I can speak from experience and say that spending the majority of my life playing games with lads has not given me any kind of advantage with the opposite sex!

Interesting just followed other links on one of the stories above, Ubisoft have removed female assassins from the new game. Im not some super feminist who believes every decision is made to do women down (i.e. I dont have a problem with representations of, for example, the courtesans in Assassins Creed, because its based in history and its kind of relevant.) But some things really are just silly and obvious. Lara Croft being an obvious example (though more recent incarnations have changed her appearance slightly to try and move away from her just being a teenage boys' wet dream) but I saw a graphic a while ago that had a group of male protagonists in battle armour, and a group of female ones. I can only say not many of the female ones had very practical outfits on. How can you focus on battle when you're not even wearing a supportive bra?

 

[Baines' left foot]

Really enjoying GRID. It's basically Dirt but on tarmac. Codemasters are the kings of racing games.

 

[RFUS]

I disagree with her wholeheartedly, but what gives idiots the idea to respond to her nonsense like they do is beyond me.

The problem is she paints a picture with broadstrokes and doesn't give balance - and it frustrates people. There are plenty of strong female characters in video games, like Tifa Lockheart, Lara Croft, Sarah Kerrigan, Elena Fisher, Jill Valentine etc. etc. etc.

Starting to believe that you did mean that nonsense you posted a while ago, Tubey. Think you might actually just be a misogynist.

 

[dholliday]

Its a similar thing I suppose to all those 'gamer girl' memes. I dont know when we were ever a different breed to gamer boys! Ive never really had a problem playing online games as a girl, my Gamertag doesnt have any clues in it that Im a girl, and my voice isnt a dead giveaway either. My friend has had a lot of abuse though. And for all those comments, jokes that gamer girls are what every man dreams of, I can speak from experience and say that spending the majority of my life playing games with lads has not given me any kind of advantage with the opposite sex!

Interesting just followed other links on one of the stories above, Ubisoft have removed female assassins from the new game. Im not some super feminist who believes every decision is made to do women down (i.e. I dont have a problem with representations of, for example, the courtesans in Assassins Creed, because its based in history and its kind of relevant.) But some things really are just silly and obvious. Lara Croft being an obvious example (though more recent incarnations have changed her appearance slightly to try and move away from her just being a teenage boys' wet dream) but I saw a graphic a while ago that had a group of male protagonists in battle armour, and a group of female ones. I can only say not many of the female ones had very practical outfits on. How can you focus on battle when you're not even wearing a supportive bra?

I was musing the other day about how some girls use obviously female profile names, and how it can affect their interaction with male forum members. I bet we've got a lot more females on this forum than we think, just most don't make it obvious in the avatar/name.


Agree with almost everything you write here, except Lara Croft in Tomb Raider: Legend was a proper hero! No wet dream guff, just pure action-heroics.

 

[Tubey]

Starting to believe that you did mean that nonsense you posted a while ago, Tubey. Think you might actually just be a misogynist.

In what way, at all, is what I posted there misogynistic? Is it because I disagree with how ONE woman puts across her views?

She doesn't give balance to what she says, she just bashes men. That's my view of her. Yes, there's a general under representation of women in video games, but that situation has been improving and it's easy to understand if you look at the history of core gaming since the Atari 2600, which has been male-orientated. Games exist to sell themselves, and they do that to a core audience.

The fact is that a lot of women play mobile games like Candy Crush Saga or Wii games; the games this woman moans about aren't actually aimed at women so it's odd to target them and ignore everything else. What do you expect game developers to do - not appeal to their target audience? Women are less likely to play a console, or own one, than men, and less likely to buy games and play them, buy DLC etc. That's a fact, so it's obvious that they would, as part of their business strategy, target men in every bit the way Mattel target Barbie at women.

Women game in a different way to men, which is an obvious and good thing as it adds diversity to the industry. But when you get a feminist raging without taking into account the many different ways games are played then it gets peoples backs up.

 

[ijjysmith]

Games though hey.

 

[dholliday]

the way Mattel target Barbie at women.

Put your foot in it there, tubes. Barbie's for kids, not grown women.